Make it a Fair Fight Using the Gottman Method
Show Notes
This episode digs deep into the journey of strengthening relationships through the Gottman method, sharing personal anecdotes and professional insights.
Key takeaways from the episode:
What is the Gottman method and how does it apply to couples therapy?
What are 'bids' in the context of relationship dynamics, and why are they important?
The impact of individual therapy on couples' dynamic
How does the intersection of mental health with kink, BDSM, ethical non-monogamy, and LGBTQ issues impact therapy and relational understanding?
How can communication and understanding intentions in relationships lead to better connection and trust?
What strategies can couples adopt from the Gottman method to prevent relationship issues and strengthen their bond?
A former Industrial and Systems Engineer, Derek Wittman is an LMHC in NY and LPC in PA with over 10 years in clinical practice. From the treatment of Substance Use Disorders to couples therapy with the Gottman Method, he had seen families reconnect in healing from the grip of trauma into restored relationships. With precious operations management experience, Wittman has recently taken the leap from his Clinical Manager position with a top 10 national healthcare company to start his own solo private practice.
Noteworthy quotes from this episode:
[27:17] "and I recognize that if she is hurt about something I did or said, that's absolutely valid, it doesn't mean that she hates me, it means that she trusts me enough to say it. And I'm so glad that I can offer her that level of safety, that she can rest on me and rest in a relationship and I don't get offended by her feelings. I want her to feel safe with me. I see in various communities that I'm a part of where ‘Am I overreacting?’ is a very common question. It's like, well, your feelings are not a reaction period. They're all internal. What are you doing with those feelings? You're throwing a temper tantrum? Are you crying? Are you calmly sharing how you feel about something? I hope I can always be calmly sharing or receiving something.”
Connect with Derek
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php/?id=100092603180057
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sage-in-time-podcast/id1721609280
Connect with Paige Bond
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Facebook: @paigebondcoaching
TikTok: @paigebondcoaching
Website: https://paigebond.com
Paige Bond hosts the Stubborn Love podcast, is a Licensed Marriage Therapist, and a Polyamory Relationship Coach. Her mission is to help people-pleasing millennials navigate non-monogamy so they can tame their jealousy and love with ease. Her own journey from feeling lonely, insecure, and jealous to feeling empowered and reassured is what fuels her passion to help other people-pleasers to conquer jealousy and embrace love.
Free Jealousy Workbook:
http://www.paigebond.com/calm-the-chaos-jealousy-workbook-download
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https://www.paigebond.com/people-pleasing-workbook
Disclaimer: This podcast and communication through our email are not meant to serve as professional advice or therapy. If you are in need of mental health support, you are encouraged to connect with a licensed mental health professional to receive the support needed.
Mental Health Resources: National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255SAMHSA’s National Helpline: 1-800-662-HELP (4357)Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741 for free, 24/7 crisis counseling.
Intro music by Coma-Media on pixabay.com
Transcript
(generated by AI - please excuse errors)
[00:00:42] Paige Bond, LMFT: Welcome back to another episode of Stubborn Love. I'm your host, Paige Bond, and today we have a very special guest, Derek Whitman, um, who I actually had the pleasure of guesting on his podcast, Sage and Time. Most recently, and I'm really excited to talk today about just all kinds of topics regarding relationships.
We're just going to see how this unfolds. Who knows what will happen, but Derek is a licensed therapist in both New York and Pennsylvania, trained in the Gottman Method, similar to myself. And so. I'm just excited that you're here. Uh, thank you so much for being here, Derek. Can you tell listeners just a little bit more about your background, um, and who you like to see and specialize in?
[00:01:33] Derek Wittman, LMHC: How far back are we going in my background? Oh, it can be in the womb if you want. Probably not. Um, but this is a second career for me. I think we talked about that previously. Um, I have a, I have an engineering background, uh, 17 years and I've been a therapist now for 10, obviously some grad schools, some post grad.
You know, figuring some things out myself, supervision, whatnot. But, I love doing what I do. I'm finally in a solo private practice up here, as you said, in New York. and I also serve the state of Pennsylvania. My niche demographic um, I am working in the ethical non monogamy space, uh, the BDSM space a little bit.
I am really receiving right now, a lot of couples work in terms of LGBT population as well. I love working with those populations in particular. I see a lot of crossover with monogamous. cisgender heterosexual couples. So, um, I mean, relationships are relationships. Um, it's just how many variables we got, but otherwise I think the principles are the same.
And I think even the Gottman method, John and Julie Gottman years ago had found, they started their work with heterosexual couples, but they've learned that there's a lot of crossover in terms of working with non heterosexual couples. So, um, I have to imagine that it will. Also work well in the non monogamous space.
Like most of us got a lot of experience, at least around here in the substance use disorder space, particularly within the opiate epidemic, um, cut my teeth there. That's a lot of loss, but I prefer to work with individuals, couples, even families who want to have healthy relationships.
[00:03:37] Paige Bond, LMFT: You've had quite a diverse plethora of experiences, but I kind of want to focus more on couples and relationship dynamics for this episode. For listeners who don't know what the Gottman method is, could you give like your short elevator speech about what I guess the principles are and how you use that in your work and then we can kind of dive down deeper into that as we go.
[00:04:06] Derek Wittman, LMHC: Okay. So, um, I mean, Paige, you already know this. They've got the sound relationship house out there in the Seattle area where John and Julie and no less than 30 grad students at any given time will observe Big Brother style, but with a lot more bells and whistles how couples interact, how do they treat each other along with What's their body temperature?
How's their pulse? How's their breathing rate? All of those, um, physiological responses to stress and love and connection. What the Gottman method does is it allows us to use some tools like, well, there's a over 350 question evaluation, I think, for both parties in a monogamous relationship to complete, there's some scoring, some evaluation.
And then at the end of it, we sit down and we say, okay, these are the things that you and your partner each respectively need from each other. And we go through it. We figure that out. And then we get to say, and these are the tools that can help you provide and meet those needs. Should you choose to. And as you know, Paige, not everybody wants to be in couples therapy.
Sometimes it's the last trip before the attorney's office.
[00:05:32] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah, some people are dragged there.
[00:05:34] Derek Wittman, LMHC: Mm hmm. And some people are like, you know what? I'm not into it, but I fake it till you make it. Um, but I've also found that some folks will change their mind. You know, they'll go to the couple's therapy session and say, you know what? My partner and I, we can do this. You know, hope is why anybody comes to therapy as you know, Paige. So, um, if we can establish some hope, if we can start to establish some trust and make even the disagreements less personal which I think the Gottman method really does a fantastic job of doing, um, you know, we start to see more possibilities.
[00:06:18] Paige Bond, LMFT: You know, now that you bring up hope, I feel like That makes the first session of couples coming to therapy or more than two people in a relationship coming to therapy, I think that makes it just that much more crucial to really have an effective first session. Because if you're not getting down to one, the, the root of like, kind of the cycle that happens, like what comes up in their relationship and establish that hope that it could get better, like who would come back?
[00:06:54] Derek Wittman, LMHC: Right.
[00:06:55] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. And I'm kind of curious, like how you format your first one or three sessions with couples to instill that hope, like what's your process?
[00:07:07] Derek Wittman, LMHC: So. I actually have not gone through an entire Gottman sequence, and the reason for that is because insurance doesn't pay for it. unless somebody is navigating something that I'm not aware of, and granted, I just left a group practice, so we never actually took insurance for any of the couple's work.
And we're talking three sessions, an extra hour to score, $35 for the test, we're talking well over $1,000 for three therapy visits. Um,
[00:07:41] Paige Bond, LMFT: It adds up.
[00:07:42] Derek Wittman, LMHC: It really does. Um, still cheaper than any attorney I know.
[00:07:48] Paige Bond, LMFT: That's my leverage that I use for premarital and marital and relationship counseling. I'm like, do you want to spend dozens of thousands of dollars on the attorney or would you like to spend maybe less than three grand in like a whole year and have a really rocking relationship?
But it's hard to have that buy in when things are so bad too.
[00:08:14] Derek Wittman, LMHC: And the thing we don't think about is there's going to be therapy either before or after the divorce, take your pick. And if it's after now, we're adding therapy bills for kids, for, for, you know, extended family, if they're affected, um, it's years ago, I was actually looking at the possibility of convincing.
You can't convince anybody to do anything that they don't want to do. Um, but of addressing insurance companies and saying, look, you can pay for a couple's therapy or you can pay for therapy for an entire family of an average of four people and they will pay for that because that's for individuals are covered. Um, for years, you know,
[00:09:09] Paige Bond, LMFT: isn't that just like backwards? You would think that the insurance company would want to save money. And it's interesting I was at that marriage and family conference recently. And you know, there were some questions about, you know, what can we do to start shifting things in the direction of changing things systemically?
Because it's really unfair for just the individuals to get the help when it's really impacting more than just -they're coming to therapy talking about relational issues, whether it's a child about their parent or, you know, about their sibling or the couple, like, if we don't give people access to these resources they're not going to be used. And so they're, they're not even given, unfortunately, not, uh, not even given a chance.
[00:10:01] Derek Wittman, LMHC: The conversation started for me with -I was actually at a friend's wedding back in 2019, my wife and I were both invited and I was sitting down and having a beer with the groom and he's like, How can we go about getting premarital therapy or counseling with as expensive as it is.
These are two young people under the age of 25. So, you know, we barely have jobs that are paying decently enough these days. So, I said, you know, the best thing you can do right now is leverage your FSA or your HSA because those will pay for couples therapy in all 50 states. but sadly enough, they should have had more therapy.
Their relationship lasted less than a year and a half I found out later, we're still friends with the family. Yeah.
[00:11:02] Paige Bond, LMFT: What a bummer though, because Preventative is so much more effective than, you know, after the fact. So many relationships can be saved by just simply having the correct tools.
[00:11:19] Derek Wittman, LMHC: But nobody knows where the correct tools come from because we don't receive the model behavior from our parents, you know, who may or may not have been married, who may or may not have the gamut of tools themselves. And we don't talk often about the challenges we face in marriage. So when we see these 50, 60 year couples and everything is great, their lives are a lot less stressful at that point because they're not hauling kids everywhere. Love my kids. They're not hauling their, their kids everywhere or having the sleepovers or dealing with staying up at midnight because so and so had a recent breakup and they just want to talk about it. We could do better.
[00:12:19] Paige Bond, LMFT: Oh, so much better. So while that's a longer conversation for another day, um, focusing on the, the here and now, what are those early tools that the Gottman's provide to be able to really turn relationships around or do that really great preventative work?
[00:12:46] Derek Wittman, LMHC: One of my favorite tools they use They refer to something called bids. I love bids. Um, for individuals who are neurodivergent, you may be familiar with what we call, um, penguin pebbling. You familiar with penguin pebbling Paige?
[00:13:06] Paige Bond, LMFT: Um, you know, I've heard of the term and I think I know what it is, but I don't want to guess wrong.
So can you also follow up for me and listeners?
[00:13:17] Derek Wittman, LMHC: Gotta keep you looking good on your own show Paige. But so penguin pebbling or, or bids are ways of saying, I'm thinking of you, you know, these little offerings that we have, um, stupid cat memes or cat memes, cat pictures, memes, you know, I'm thinking of you to saw something.
I know you'll like, you'll, you'll find it funny, or it's about. You know, your favorite musical artists, little things, no cost, just absolutely no cost, you know, we don't even have to pay for texting anymore. Uh, and just a few seconds of your time. Those, those little things, penguin pebbling bids. Um, My wife and I practice this thing.
We've, we've done this ever since our kids were younger. They're 21 and 23 now, but ever since they were younger, Hey, I'm on my way home from work. Is there anything you'd like me to pick up on the way? It's it's not, is there anything do we need? Because then we start thinking, well, I don't really need that, but I would like it.
And I'm not going to ask. And now all of a sudden there's, there's this element of lack of communication between us. So we've rephrased that question to, is there anything I could pick up for you, um, on the way home?
[00:14:51] Paige Bond, LMFT: What a simple tweak that is.
[00:14:54] Derek Wittman, LMHC: It's absolutely small. When I was changing careers and I was working in this outpatient, you know, for, for folks who don't know, therapy schedules are not typically nine to five
because your schedules are nine to five. So we'd work around that. Um, I was working Tuesdays from like 1230 to 430 going to court every week for patient stuff and, you know, if I was going to be late, you know, I'm leaving the office now. You know somebody's leaving work, and they tell you they're leaving work. I have to run these errands on my way home. It's, it's simple. It's not about a lack of trust either. And I think a lot of people have this, I need to know because of some insecurity. No, it's, I'm thinking of you. Is there anything you want me to pick up?
[00:15:54] Paige Bond, LMFT: It reminds me of, um, something that I was thinking about last week, where I like really enjoy disclaimers.
So that I don't have to guess and whether it be about like, something my partner is thinking, or maybe he's doing an action. And of course, I'm not in his brain and I'm not a mind reader. Um, and, and he verbalizes what he's doing, but it kind of reminds me of, of that too, like kind of just, it's, disclaimers of saying what you're doing in order to also connect so that it doesn't, you know, have the partner feel left behind or whatever.
[00:16:36] Derek Wittman, LMHC: Absolutely. And We think of a disclaimer as a way to cover, can I say ask Cover your ass. Um, but it's really more about the connection. I mean, lawyers are gonna say it's about covering your ass, but in a, in a relationship, whether it's monogamous or otherwise, it's really about 'these are my intentions' I know you and I've talked previously, the intentions, yeah, people are hurt by the results, but even the captains would agree that if we can see our partner as giving us their best intention, they're looking out for our best interest and vice versa, if we can give our best and even communicate that we're not able to give our best at the moment. I'm too tired for this conversation. You know, let's have breakfast tomorrow morning and then we'll talk. . Go to bed.
[00:17:37] Paige Bond, LMFT: Beautiful Yeah. That brings up a good point because, you know, there's so many people who have that idea in their mind of "we cannot go to bed angry, we have to resolve this before we go to sleep." And instead of being able to communicate really effectively and, you know, tie that up before they go to bed, they're dragging on for hours using poor communication, becoming more tired, becoming more dysregulated when they could have done what you just said.
Hey, you know what? I'm not in my best mind state. I can't show up for you in the way that I know that I would love to. And you know, I, I gotta do something different and take a break, regulate my system. We will for sure talk about this, that reassurance that it is going to be talked about is like necessary, especially for people who, um, are on the other end in a cycle where it's perpetual, that it doesn't get talked about.
Yeah.
[00:18:41] Derek Wittman, LMHC: And even telling my partner, I'm not at my best right now. That's a bid. Um, Brene Brown when she talks about she and her husband Steve, she'll say, um, how are you doing today? And, and it's on a scale from one to 100. And he'll say, I'm in an 80 right now. Ugh, I've had the worst day, I'm at 30. I'm gonna need you to pick up a little bit more today. Okay. Thanks for letting me know.
Because if we don't do that, then, you know, well, he sees that the dishes aren't done yet. He sees that the house is a mess. The kids are acting up. What's the matter with him?
[00:19:26] Paige Bond, LMFT: And then they go into a story about it. Mm hmm. Not a nice one.
[00:19:30] Derek Wittman, LMHC: No. Um, one of the, one of the folks at the gym I work out with even said, you know, anxiety is all about the stories we're telling. stop telling stories and start telling the truth.
[00:19:48] Paige Bond, LMFT: I think that's the key. It's so powerful. If we can let our partner in to our world. Of where we make up these stories to you. That's something that, um, we practice. Actually, we did coaching and this was part of their process where they really encouraged you to use this template where it's a this is the story I'm telling myself and there's a lot more to that, but you actually let your partner know what you're making up about the situation because more than likely, it's not accurate.
Um, but now they have the information and can meet you where you're at and give a lot of understanding and validate where you're at.
[00:20:30] Derek Wittman, LMHC: So we, we actually learned that on our own, my wife and I, um, after a while, I think we were probably about maybe 10 years ago, maybe eight. And we just started saying to each other, what we think is going on here is not really what's going on here. And it took some time to start to deconstruct, you know, so what is really going on here? You know, that, that conversation that happened five years ago that is coming back to haunt us. Every time something is similar. I've, I've only recently been learning about my own neuro divergence and it's taken a lot for us to connect over, but I reached out to a friend of mine from high school and high school kids say the dumbest things. Sometimes they're not dumb, but they say the dumbest things.
Um, you know, anybody we've all been to high school. So. I'd actually reached out to one of my best friends at the time, we're not really connected right now. And I pointed out something that I had done and his response to it and, and I was like, you don't remember saying that thing, did you said, no, I don't.
It wasn't hurtful to me. It wasn't like I've been carrying it on. You look a little relieved now Paige. Um, it wasn't like I held on to it, but it was like, that explains a lot of my life experiences. You know, up to then and even now, he's like, I, and he even came back with, I said some stupid shit too.
It's like, I can't believe I said that. I was like, he's like, I must have, cause you remembered it for, I won't tell you your listeners how many years, but you'll remember it for that long. Um, but it was so freeing to be able to say this thing happened. I'm not upset about it.
High schoolers are knuckleheads. And I say that to my high schoolers. I say that to my adults, you know, we're doing what we're supposed to be doing.
[00:22:56] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. And awareness is so helpful though. What a gift to be able to go back and you know, even if it's not something that's causing upset or disturbance now, just bringing that to their forefront so they can keep that in mind for people who they interact with.
[00:23:17] Derek Wittman, LMHC: I mean it's, it's, it's been great to reconnect with him. We've, we've talked on and off over the past 10 years, but um, and that's just it. One of the things that we've learned in our relationships, I'm sure you sure you've learned it, even shared it, um, the benefit of the doubt, the other person is doing their best, whether it's a toddler, whether it's my partner of five years, 10 years, my other partner of 50 years, doesn't matter.
Or whether it's a new puppy, they're just doing their best.
[00:23:59] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. And I, I like to think that, you know, if you're in a relationship with someone, would you really expect them to have the worst intention or like want to cause you harm? And granted, take that with a grain of salt, right? Because some people do want to cause harm and are definitely don't have the best intentions. But, in most loving relationships that I see walk into my office, they really do want to hold space for their partner, connect with their partner, love on their partner, and they may mess up trying to do so in a way that does not land, or, or maybe it's even repairing with a partner, apologizing or making amends in some way, and it just doesn't land in the way that, you know, their partner needs. So having that benefit of the doubt, I love that. It's so key.
[00:25:06] Derek Wittman, LMHC: So even before the call, I was telling you that, um, I helped my, my child move to Orlando, uh, recently. Uh, I'm looking at the calendar about five weeks ago now. And my wife was upset. She's like, I wanted to go. We couldn't both go together. Um, we just didn't have enough room in the, in the one car that we took.
You know, I wanted to go. I said, I know you wanted to go, but I also know that you have a limited amount of time off left. And I'm watching the airfares and, and, and I was like, can you accept that I, I didn't do so maliciously to which she said, I know you didn't, but I'm still hurt. Yes. And that's fair.
[00:26:05] Paige Bond, LMFT: So I, I love that you're bringing awareness to that, right? Because we can have the best intentions and then we can be on the receiving end and know that our partner had the best intention for us, but there can still be the hurt feelings there. Okay. Can you walk us through, like, what, what do we do in that situation, you know, to mend that herd or to hold space, whatever we need to do?
[00:26:32] Derek Wittman, LMHC: Well, what we typically will do, um, it's not for everybody, what we will typically do. We have a few nights a week, uh, depending on my work schedule, her work schedule, um, and we are empty nesters right now, so we can do this whenever we want. Quite literally, I sit on the sofa and She'll lay right across my lap, my arm will be around her, and we'll just talk and, you know, yeah, we'll cover the how's your day been? it's usually about 530, we still don't know what's for dinner, so what do you want to do for dinner, because we don't plan, um, but, what's on your mind, and I recognize that if she is hurt about something I did or said, that's valid, absolutely valid, it doesn't mean that she hates me, it means that she trusts me enough to say it, And I'm so glad that I can offer her that level of safety that she can rest on me and rest in a relationship and I don't get offended by her feelings. I want her. To feel safe with me. I see in various communities that I'm a part of where am I overreacting is a very common question. It's like, well, your feelings are not a reaction period. They're all internal. What are you doing with those feelings? You're throwing a temper tantrum? Are you crying? Are you calmly sharing how you feel about something? I hope I can always be calmly sharing or receiving something.
[00:29:01] Paige Bond, LMFT: That intentionality is key, I think. And I love how you really Gave space to talk about the difference in feelings being an internal thing that we experience, it's not behavior. Reaction is behavior, how you handle, how you respond. And I think it's so beautiful what you say that like, if I'm offended by my partner's feelings, that can really create a rift of distrust between us if I'm not holding that kind of space to allow them to come to me. I mean, it'd be kind of unfair being in a relationship and saying, you know, I love you so much. I want to be with you all the time, but only if it's good feelings. Don't come to me. If you have bad feelings, don't share those with me.
[00:29:59] Derek Wittman, LMHC: Yeah. Take those to your therapist.
[00:30:02] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. We hear that.
[00:30:04] Derek Wittman, LMHC: Absolutely. I'm working with my couples. We'll talk about the, I'm not enough or I'm too much and I'll look at you know, separately together, I'll look at, you know, whoever's in front of my screen because we both, I do this all fully remotely and I'll say, you are Goldilocks, you are Goldilocks or you are the baby bear. You know, what does the baby bear do or what does Goldilocks, where do you find Goldilocks sleeping soundly where she feels safe.
[00:30:52] Paige Bond, LMFT: Sometimes we just need to be reminded and, and most importantly, reminded through our partner's word, through our partner's actions.
[00:31:06] Derek Wittman, LMHC: I mean, it hasn't always been this way. We, like I said, we just started figuring stuff out about 12 years ago. Yeah and my wife does not have a background in mental health, just want to make that clear.
[00:31:21] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. I mean, one thing I want to say, uh, listeners, if you don't know, therapists don't have everything figured out. We are all on a human journey just like you. And things are hard to put into practice sometimes, right?
[00:31:38] Derek Wittman, LMHC: Yes, they are.
[00:31:41] Paige Bond, LMFT: And so can you say what it was when you finally realized you got to a point where you were really struggling with communication or, or conflict in some way, got to a point to where you're like, okay, it's gotta change.
How did you have that hope to go forward kind of circling back to like the first sessions with couples? How were you able to instill hope in your own relationship to be able to do that? And move forward.
[00:32:10] Derek Wittman, LMHC: Well, I think for us, we were committed to, you know, till death do us part. My parents were married over 50 years before my mom passed away.
Her parents were married over 49 years before her dad passed away. And there's was a second marriage, but only because her mother's first husband died in the, in the Korean war. That was it. Absolutely. That was it. Um, you know, she's had those conversations back when her mother was still alive. How did you navigate those challenges? I've had those conversations with my dad, and those are more recent, of course, but early on, you know, we were NASA. Failure is not an option. Of course, divorce is not seen as failure anymore. And that's a good thing. Um, but no, we've, we've, um, encouraged other couples flat out, you know, before you want to work with us, we're going to tell your story from, you know, the day we met to here. Wherever here happened to be, we had this incredible opportunity, we're a small church, um, at the time, um, friends of ours, we actually knew everybody there. There's probably about less than 30 couples maybe. And we made it a point, you know, we want pre marriage therapy, but we're like the second wedding in the tenure history of the church at that point, or the congregation.
So I said, you know, I want to read books. I'm an avid reader. And I want to pick out like six couples. We're just going to take them out to dinner, their kids, whatever. Some of them had small kids and talk to them and see what their struggles were like. What do they see in us that they've already got concerns about?
Cause you know, nobody's perfect on their wedding day, even though they look awesome. They're not. And each couple had something different to give us as far as. Their own experience, their own wisdom, how not to go to bed angry. And I, and I think going back to that, do we go to bed angry? No, we call it a ceasefire, you know, just like world, world theater, um, you know, the, the diplomatic stage. I can choose not to be angry. I can choose to see something in a different way that helps me to not be angry.
[00:35:15] Paige Bond, LMFT: I can love you and I can disagree and I can have hurt feelings all at the same time.
[00:35:23] Derek Wittman, LMHC: It's a frequent expression. I'm mostly receiving it in our house. But I love you, but I don't like you right now. It's okay.
[00:35:33] Paige Bond, LMFT: Ride the wave.
[00:35:36] Derek Wittman, LMHC: And that right there does not keep me. From sending the next text from saying, Hey, would you like me to pick up something on my way home does not change her emotions do not change who I am, how she treats me does not change who I am, how she feels about me did not change who I am. That's my responsibility.
[00:36:07] Paige Bond, LMFT: I'm so glad you said that. Because I hear sometimes this lack of responsibility and owning their own actions or inactions really that that cause harm or discomfort to their partner. And growing the problem, making it worse. When they could take ownership for who they are, who they want to be and be loving, calm, kind and connecting and trusting, they can choose that.
I love how you shed light on that.
[00:36:44] Derek Wittman, LMHC: Thank you. Yeah.
[00:36:48] Paige Bond, LMFT: Um, there's so many quotes from this episode that I'm just going to keep in my little toolbox and pull out to the clients that I work with.
[00:36:58] Derek Wittman, LMHC: Same.
[00:36:59] Paige Bond, LMFT: This has been so great, Derek. Um, we're going to have to start winding down now but I'm wondering if you might be able to give listeners any other last words of wisdom, specific tips or especially for people who are wanting to go down like the prevention route and not want to end up six years into the resentment and now going to couple therapy, what could be your best advice for giving people to have the good relationship now in the moment?
[00:37:35] Derek Wittman, LMHC: Well, I always start with an individual therapist.
Um, anytime I'm working with couples. I will ask them both, are you both seeing a therapist? If somebody on social media says, hey, can you work with us? Um, they find me somehow, I'll say, who's in therapy? It's not that I won't work with them, but I'll explain why therapy is important as an individual. Because if I'm not my best and my partner's her best, the best we're going to get is to where I am. It's multiplication. It's just like. You know, when we, when we blend two things together, I like me some peanut butter cups, we get the best of both worlds, but you know, if, if things are not mixed well, we get the worst of, of everything. One person at their best can not carry everybody.
[00:38:45] Paige Bond, LMFT: It takes more than one person to be in a relationship.
[00:38:48] Derek Wittman, LMHC: It does.
[00:38:51] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. Good wise words. Um, so if listeners feel really touched by anything you've had to say, or just want to hear more about you. Can you tell them what you've got going on and how to find you?
[00:39:10] Derek Wittman, LMHC: Thank you, Paige.
I have a lot going on, but I'm going to keep it to the business side of things. Um, you can find me at www. sageintime. That's SAGEINTIME.Com. Um, that's my business page. Um, folks that are listening in both Pennsylvania and New York can go ahead. I do take some insurances, so check out the site.
I've got some different options for you willing to work with individuals, couples, families, and that would include, uh, non monogamous arrangements. Um, if more than one More the merrier. Um, but also, I think it's important to know that I have an incredible set of availability. I've got first things in the morning, six and seven in the morning.
when you're starting out, you can't be picky for one. Uh, two, I am still transitioning out of a full time job. So, um, and I, most nights I'm still working until about nine thirty to 10 o'clock. So certainly have some other options for folks that are working different shifts. Um, I do specialize a lot with medical staff, nurses, et cetera, first responders, which often are difficult to find a regular spot.
Um, so that could be beneficial as far as the podcast goes. That's the Sage in Time podcast, you can find that on YouTube with video at youtube.com/@sageintimeMHC
MHC. And I'm on all the major podcasts. The website also has access to the podcast as well through through Buzzsprout. So you don't even have to go looking for the podcast. If you just happen to be on a browser. Absolutely.
[00:41:02] Paige Bond, LMFT: Perfect. And what can people expect when, uh, they're listening to you, the Sage in time podcast.
[00:41:08] Derek Wittman, LMHC: So. It may only be one season, but it appears it's going to be a little bit more, um, the topics this year so far have ranged from the intersection of mental health with kink, BDSM, ethical non monogamy. I've had a recent attorney come on talking about protecting one's brand, well confidentiality for in particular sex workers, uh, and folks that is not necessarily prostitution, but only fans, you know, paid dominatrix services, things like that.
Nothing promoted is, is illegal. I want to make sure we know that. Um, I have the upcoming episode features a young lady who is still recovering from conversion therapy as a child and a lot of the trauma that she's suffered. Uh, we've got a variety of folks that are talking about their own mental health experiences, but I've also got some physicians that are talking about working with the population.
The real goal of the podcast, Paige, is to help individuals who are seeking services of therapy or other medical services to be comfortable, particularly if they're LGBTQ, ethical non monogamy or within the lifestyle for kink BDSM, because those populations often are still stigmatized when we come to when we talk about providers, people just don't understand we still live in a monogamous married country here in the U. S. At least.
So those are big things. I got some really cool surprises coming up. I can't wait to share them.
[00:42:59] Paige Bond, LMFT: Well, thank you so much for the work you do, uh, not only with couples, but also making sure, you know, sharing this with the world and de stigmatizing, um, everything out there that we can to just make things feel more accepting and inclusive.
[00:43:15] Derek Wittman, LMHC: Mm hmm. Thank you.
[00:43:16] Paige Bond, LMFT: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being on the show today. I will make sure to have all your links for listeners to be able to reach out, find you.
[00:43:24] Derek Wittman, LMHC: I appreciate that. . I had a great time, Paige. Thank you for so much for having me.
[00:43:28] Paige Bond, LMFT: You're welcome Me too. you and I could have our own podcast, probably just chit chatting and.
[00:43:34] Derek Wittman, LMHC: We could.
[00:43:34] Paige Bond, LMFT: Hanging out all day. Um, so again, thank you for being here and listeners until next time. Take care. .
