People-Pleasing in Polyamorous and Open Relationships

Show Notes

Not sure how to express what you want in your open relationship as you navigate polyamory, swinging, or some other CNM dynamic? We get down to business talking about how you can ditch people-pleasing so you can feel empowered in expressing yourself without sacrificing your desires or preferences.

In this episode, you’ll learn about:

• Why setting boundaries is tough for people who like to please others.

• Tips for calming down nerves before difficult conversations.

• Learning to say 'no' nicely and meaning it.

• Understanding how to handle tough relationship talks in non-monogamous structures.

Vicki Smith is a licensed psychotherapist and a coach who specializes in people pleasing and perfectionism. She enjoys working with these issues because she loves seeing people discover their true nature and then share it with the world. Her mission is to help folks not just TALK ABOUT the life they’ve always wanted, but to actually start LIVING IT OUT!

Noteworthy quotes from this episode:

[24:41] “I believe that most of us pleasers white knuckle our way through boundaries and we hope that we really don't have to have a conversation with someone. We hope we can just kind of plop it out there and that person understands and takes it and says, ‘oh, yes, of course.’ The thing that keeps us from speaking up is we are afraid of staying in the conversation.”

[25:54] "Boundaries are scary because first we don't know what we want... and then we feel like there's gonna be conflict."

Connect with Carrie

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100075839538976

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/power.to.the.pleasers/

Website -  https://powertothepleasers.com

Podcast - https://powertothepleasers.com/podcast/

Connect with Paige Bond

Instagram: @paigebondcoaching

Facebook: @paigebondcoaching

Website: www.paigebond.com

Paige Bond hosts the Stubborn Love podcast, is a Licensed Marriage Therapist, and is a Polyamory Relationship Coach. Her mission is to help people-pleasing millennials navigate non-monogamy so they can tame their jealousy and love with ease. Her own journey from feeling lonely, insecure, and jealous to feeling empowered and reassured is what fuels her passion to help other people-pleasers to conquer jealousy and embrace love.

Free Jealousy Workbook: 

⁠⁠http://www.paigebond.com/calm-the-chaos-jealousy-workbook-download⁠⁠

Free People Pleasing Workbook: 

⁠⁠https://www.paigebond.com/people-pleasing-workbook⁠⁠

Disclaimer: This podcast and communication through our email are not meant to serve as professional advice or therapy. If you are in need of mental health support, you are encouraged to connect with a licensed mental health professional to receive the support needed.

Mental Health Resources:National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255SAMHSA’s National Helpline: 1-800-662-HELP (4357)Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741 for free, 24/7 crisis counseling.
Intro music by Coma-Media on ⁠⁠pixabay.com⁠

Transcript

(generated by AI - please excuse errors)

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

Welcome back to another episode of Stubborn Love. I'm your host, Paige Bond. And we have a very special guest today. As always, all my guests are special. So we have Vicki Smith, she's a licensed psychotherapist and a coach who specializes in people pleasing and perfectionism. So that's what we're going to dive into today on the show. She's going to basically tell us all about what people pleasing is since I specialize in non monogamous relationships, she's going to like, help

us see how that fits into non monogamy and how that can be a really big struggle. So before we get into the nitty gritty Vicky, thank you so much for being here today. Can you introduce yourself to listeners and just tell them about your journey on how you got to be an expert in people pleasing.

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

Sure, thanks for having me. I know we've been chatting back and forth and it's been fun. And so yeah, people pleasing near and dear to my heart. I kind of tongue in cheek, say it takes one to know one. So how I got into this is because I grew up with a workaholic dad who was a perfectionist and then my mom was a good old codependent. She really made sure that he was taken care of and understandably that was the generation that they grew up in.

And so I got it from both sides. I learned how to really be focused on what I wanted to do so that I could succeed and to not give myself any breaks and then to also be kind and accommodating and supportive and behind the scenes, it was really kind of an odd mixture, but here I am. And so when I started my self exploration around how to get some relief because most of it shows up for me as anxiety.

I started throwing out what was working for me to my clients and it was like we were speaking the same language and they started to get better and I started to get jealous of how they were getting better. And I was like, why didn't I have somebody like me in my corner when I was doing this? And so they felt more empowered and that might feel like kind of a 19 eighties word, but they felt more empowered to set boundaries or to explore what they wanted instead of what others wanted.

And then they started showing up in their lives and making decisions and forming relationships that were more fulfilling for them. So they left the office and I was like, ok, I guess this is working. So I just hung around. I stayed in that that arena and got caught up with some of my clients myself. And yeah, now I do this work as my specialty.

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

I love that story and I almost find it comedic how many of us psychotherapists or coaches often have struggled or been through the same exact thing that we are helping others with. So thank you for being vulnerable and sharing that piece of your story with us. I hear these words a lot especially on social media, mental health, things going on setting boundaries and I'm sure we'll get into that on what that looks like

what that means with people pleasing. So can you kind of like if you were to define what people pleasing is, how would you explain that to like a normal person on the street.

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

Well, I like to think about it in terms of behaviors first and then so the external manifestation of people pleasing can look like being accommodating, being the, you know, the supportive actress or actor, kind of taken behind the scenes being super understanding about why people are doing the things that they're doing, always trying to see their side, always giving them the benefit of the doubt acquiescing to things that people say they want to do, even picking a restaurant

to go out to dinner. It is being kind of the passenger and not the driver in a relationship and making sure that other people of course, think of you favorably and have a positive experience with you. So that might mean overextending yourself saying yes, instead of setting a boundary showing up to things that don't really fit your calendar, but you make the make it work.

It's kind of like project runway and Tim Gunn. It's a, it's always a make it work moment for us people pleasers. So I start with, with the behaviors and if you feel like you're checking off any of those then and that feels like kind of the main way you interact with folks as you start kind of checking off that list, then I encourage people to do a little bit more research on whether what's going on behind the scenes is motivating that behavior.

So usually that's fear of rejection, criticism or judgment and not really wanting to cause conflict. You know, I don't want to rock the boat. I don't wanna make waves and it feels like if I show up and I really say what I think or, or want then that will upset someone.

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist, Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

So and that looks like one of those three like rejection, judgment or criticism, this is hitting so hard because as you are talking about this, I, I imagine so many of my clients struggling with this exact thing.

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

And I myself as a recovering people pleaser. and very familiar with all of this, that part about, you know, really analyzing what is the motivating behavior. I love that as a way to do that self reflection, to see what it is like what is causing this behavior to go into that over extension and get misaligned with your values essentially, right?

So I'm thinking about it in the context of non monogamous relationships. I'm wondering how can people pleasing tendencies manifest and create challenges if, if I were to give you the example, maybe someone say we're working with a heterosexual couple. So we have a husband and a wife and husband is wanting to engage in a monogamy finally brings it up to life. They're kind of unsure, may be curious about exploring but know that they'll be really jealous and have quite a bit of

hesitation. So sure they, they may want to just to see what it's like, but they're really scared to and maybe internally what they're not really saying is, but I don't want to share you with anyone but they don't tell their partner that out of fear of, maybe losing them or something. Can you kind of go and run down a list of like how people pleasing, kind of shows up in situations like that first.

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

I would say that gut instinct of, I'm not sure about this. And that could mean it's a no for that person or it could mean it's a maybe right, as you're saying, they could be interested in exploring it. Why are they interested in exploring it? Is it because of that fear that they will lose their partner unless they do? So, one of the things that I start with if I can with folks because sometimes it's a little kind of like jumping in the deep end, but I like to start with what your body is

telling you what your gut is telling you because as people pleasers, we have overridden our body signals a lot and we disconnect from our body. So if there is that kind of zoop that kind of little lightning bolt of what is this? And what does this mean? I would ask that person to stay with that a little bit more. And I think the fear of losing someone ends up overriding that.

And again, it could be a maybe it could just be a, this is way new. This is coming out of left field. I don't know what to do with it. I'm, I'm open to it, but if you're open in that people pleasing way of OK, this is, this is what's gonna have to happen. I'm gonna have to get used to it. Right. Tim Gunn, I'm gonna have to make it work. Then it's gonna, it's gonna come back to really cause distress and internal struggle for that person.

They are going to be living in that jealousy, that inferiority and they're going to keep trying to make it work in certain ways and it's, it's finally gonna kind of blow up if you will. So I would first stay with that, that little or it could be a big gut reaction and get more information from that and I do internal family systems. So I work with parts of the personality and I would call that body sensation apart for, you know, for that person like this is a part of you that's not sure.

So what would we like to do with that? That unsure. Let's see if we can get through those first initial choppy waves of, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. I'm gonna lose this person. So that's where I would start.

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

Well, now I'm so curious.

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist, Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

Now I wanna know what's next after you start while staying with, what's the body?

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

What body signals are happening. I think there's then trusting that this means something to me. This is not just, hey, would you like to jump out of an airplane and like that natural instinctual, like this is not a safe thing to do. Why would I be doing this? This is your particular barometer about what feels safe for you and relationships. So helping a person trust that they are maybe could end up a no.

And that could mean a change in that relationship, which can bring about all sorts of fears of being alone or not being enough or being abandoned. And I also bring mindfulness. And so we're gonna be looking at all the beliefs that get laid over top of that feeling. We're working with the people, please or part that wants to override that feeling and make the relationship work.

So it really is hanging out in. That's why I say sometimes it's like jumping in the deep end, it's really hanging out in that discomfort, which can be strangely, ironically, something that folks that come into therapy or coaching are kind of like, I wanna get away from discomfort and we're sort of like, well, we need to lean into it first. Sorry. It's taking a very gentle approach to being with that discomfort and getting to know the parts that are afraid, getting to know the

thoughts and beliefs that get wrapped up in the body signals. And I like to just kind of, I call it, sorting the laundry with my folks. Like thoughts are over here in this basket. Feelings and sensations are here. Emotions are here. And yeah, just not getting blocked and stopped by. That immediate fear of this means everything is going to change and I'm gonna die.

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

I imagine that immediate fear that can get set in and take us off to the races essentially is really maybe one of the the more distressing parts, one of the more intense parts that can show up in people pleasing and really maybe wreak the most havoc cause the most damage in the relationship. Because when we're on that kind of mindset, we make fast irrational decisions.

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

Right. Right. The prefrontal cortex, this thing up here is not working. We are in fight or flight and also then fawn which is what's been added to that fight flight freeze trio. It's now fawning, which is people pleasing. So yeah, we're gonna do anything we can when that sympathetic nervous system is going, I'm not safe, I'm

not safe. What do I do now? So really helping the body calm down in that place so that you can get clear about what is really happening. What is really the next best step for you?

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

I imagine that the people you work with share the same sentiment as mine where they often struggle sitting with that discomfort. Oh, yes.

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist, Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

So how do we help them with that?

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

That's where the mindfulness and the internal family systems work comes in because there is such a like the overarching theme of both of those ways of getting to know yourself is curiosity. So with that entry point of, I'm I'm interested in what this means to me, I'm interested in getting to know that zap of fear and where it usually takes me what I usually do in reaction to it.

So one of the reasons I love internal family systems is because we can really for lack of a better word, isolate apart. And so the people pleasing part, we can really get to know the fears of that part. The concerns that that part has. If we don't make this work by bringing another person into our relationship and staying with it is not easy. And yet if we force it, our bodies are, our bodies are parts, our internal world is gonna clamp down, it's gonna constrict.

So this idea of mindfulness with curiosity, with just exploration, just getting to know. And then I like to term self compassion just because it's my growing edge right now. So I like to reframe it in a way that I can actually tolerate it. And then bringing in a general sense of friendliness towards our exploration because we do want to help ourselves not be in this place.

We do want to help ourselves out of struggle and suffering. And so how we stay with it is at least for me and how I work with clients is I really respect the parts of them that protect them from feeling it first.

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

How do you create a sense of respect for those parts? If maybe we're angry towards those parts or we don't want those parts around?

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

Yeah, this is what I again, when I landed in internal family systems as a client, I thought, oh, ok. I am going to become evangelical with this. Like everyone needs to know that it was kind of like what I did with, with mindfulness as well. So when we are doing internal family systems work and we talk about this people pleaser part, we will have one of the most prominent questions in ifs an ifs session, which is how do you feel towards this part?

So if you are feeling angry or critical, then that will come out and then we work with that criticism or that anger. So we're always working with the part that's trying to block things and help that part relax first and then take the next step.

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

You know, this almost reminds me a lot of like my couple's work like this, this working with parts and trying to turn towards with curiosity, give the benefit of the doubt, cultivate respect. and, and be mindful and not react from a place of that gut reaction where it's your prefrontal cortex, you know, controlling things and, and be more mindful, compassionate, beautiful. I'm kind of thinking, you know, couple of the, the fears that I hear most often with my people, pleasers

trying to navigate a non monogamous relationship is I'm afraid that they'll fall in love with someone else. if the agreement, you know, is, is to be strictly sexual. So that's a big fear is that I'm afraid they'll fall in love with someone else. and of that kind of same similar thought is I'm afraid that they will love them more than me. They will like this aspect about them more than me.

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist, Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

So as a people pleaser, you know, how, how would we approach that approach our fears around it?

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

Because those are the blocks, right?

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

Yeah. You know, I would bring in a good dose of self compassion in that way because you really are in a fearful, on a fearful track in that space. There's comparison. How could you not, we do it all the time. It's natural. But the idea that we are going to lose the connection that we have with that person because that connection has been helpful for us and the safety and the I'm just gonna land on safety, the safety that comes from that connection, sharing that feels like I'm gonna have

less of it. And any time we feel like something is slipping away, we are gonna grasp it. Yes, we're gonna pull harder to fight for it. So I would, would first recognize the natural inclination to do that and work with that fear of what will I be if some of this, you know, what, what will life look like for me? If some of this connection is different, right?

If I do feel a loss of that one on one connection with this person, that one on one established foundational relationship that we've, we've put kind of all our eggs in that basket and recognizing that taking care of that fear ourselves. But self soothing if you will is actually part of our responsibility as an adult and then working with how to communicate what we come. What becomes clear to us about the loss, the fear of the loss or, you know, once the relationship does open up, if

there are those little pings or the big pings of this isn't, this isn't working for me or this is I'm in a space where I'm starting to get crunchy and constricted really? Working with the vulnerability that it takes to say to that person. OK, I'm in one of those crunchy spots. Now, we've reached a different stage in this exploration for you. And for me, let's come back and I need to, I need to process this with you. I need to figure out if this is still going to work for me

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

here. Part of the process in gaining back like your strength and recovering from people pleasing is evaluating and checking in with yourself along the step of every single way of, you know, really any situation that presents itself to you. Yeah.

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

Right. Right. Which is odd. And that doing that you turn back towards yourself is not a natural arc for a people pleaser. It's usually I call it one way intimacy. I'm like, you know, this person doesn't know you as much as you think they do, they know a part of you.

And so that I'm just gonna focus outward as a people pleaser and then turning that focus back inward is, yeah, it's a learning curve and to recognize that the things that are happening when I turn towards myself are valid signals.

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

I just wanna be like your therapy client this the way you're explaining this, the way you're explaining, this is just so soothing and I feel like the process is very clear and laid out. So I think, you know, to go back for what you were talking about just a second ago about. Ok. Well, you know, when we notice that things might be different internally and we might have to have that sit down talk with our partner about, hey, I think I need some processing to figure out where I'm at with this.

Now that, you know, we've made some adjustments, I think that's a good segue into talking about boundaries. Yeah. Yeah. OK. So can you tell us a little bit about boundaries and why people pleasers might have such a hard time setting them and sticking to them.

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

Right. I love the sticking to them thing who, because I believe that most of us pleasers white knuckle our way through boundaries and we hope that we really don't have to have a conversation with someone. We hope we can just kind of plop it out there and that person understands and takes it and says, oh, yes, of course. The thing that, that keeps us from speaking up is we are afraid of staying in the conversation.

We are assuming it's going to be a conflict instead of a conversation. And rightly so we've most, most of us have had a good amount of early childhood experiences where when we spoke up, we were shamed or criticized, or what, when we saw someone angry, it was so scary for us that we believe that if we do want something, first of all, we're selfish and we'll get criticized for it.

But the second thing is that it will make someone angry. And so anger really throws us into almost like a freeze mode, right? Which is why I love that fawning has been added to fight and flight. because it means we don't have to necessarily go into freeze. So boundaries are scary because first we don't know what we want. So if we're asking for something, we could be kind of flimsy about it and then we feel like there's gonna be conflict and we don't like anything edgy or tense and then

we're just gonna have to roll back and reverse that request if there is conflict. And so we're gonna leave being mad at ourselves, which again, we don't like anger. So we don't like being mad at ourselves. So it just, it has this, this complicated recipe when you, when you throw out the word boundaries to a people pleaser like, hey, well, you just need to like speak up for yourself.

I tell my clients we're not even gonna start with what your voice sounds like or the words that come with it until we work on getting your fight flight or fawning in check. So boundaries is, so is such a big topic?

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

Sounds like there's like very many layers that are incorporated in there as to why it's difficult to set them and why it would be really hard to just like try to go ahead and set one even if we haven't dealt with like all of the other parts of calming our system down. So let's take the situation and say, ok, our system has calmed down. We are soothed. We can have conversations. I've identified what boundaries that I would like. Now, how do we go about actually communicating those?

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

So I do what I picked up from an early training with couples work. So you can tell me if this is completely, I don't know, it works. I've, I've, I've taught it to people, people have practiced it. It doesn't go exactly as the formula in the, in the training set. It would. However, I asked people to get really clear about what the message is so that there doesn't have to be this preamble and there doesn't have to be a lot of explaining because you lose the audience when you go that way.

So it really is one sentence and of course they can start with, I they might not start with you. So they don't put the person on the defensive, but whatever, it doesn't matter, make it a short sentence so that that person can take it in and then stop talking. And so what we're also working with and we work with the nervous system is distress. Tolerance is learning, learning to allow the discomfort to be there because you are gonna be speaking up and you are gonna be staying in the

conversation, which means it might be negotiation, right? So keep it short, keep it clear. Don't try to explain, don't try to get them on your side, let them have their reaction, let them have their response. They're entitled to that and then you can come back to something like I make them little therapist what I hear you saying or yes, I heard that or that acknowledgment that this request of you might not be your favorite thing to hear right now. So I can even offer a little bit of

that compassion towards them without losing myself. Right. So I think that if we start talking too much, we lose our body. And so that's why I want them to have these short concise to the point messages. And when the other person speaks, they acknowledge so that can calm that other person down too. And if it needs, if it's too much, it can be stating the obvious like this is really feeling like a lot for me. I'm gonna need to take a break.

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

That was so beautifully worded. I'm wondering if we can go further and I might be able to give like an example and we can kind of work with what that would sound like. So let's say we have two people wanting to, you know, have a conversation about overnights and let's say one partner is requesting that there's overnights and the people pleaser themselves are really unsure about that.

They're fine with date nights with other partners and have done a lot of work to be ok with that. But overnight is something that would be a really big struggle for the people pleaser. How would they communicate a boundary around something like that?

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

I would be curious and I would wonder without having to have it be ok with their partner, what would be their dream boundary? Would it be a no, right? Would it be like sort of like their shitty first rough draft of what they would say? Right? Like how could you do this to me or I thought things were going well and now you want to push it more to have an overnight, like I would let them get that out first and then I would ask them, what are the little gems and what you said, what are the things

that you want to pull out of that? Throw it at the wall, you know, bra brainstorming about your boundaries and let's say they, they had in their mind what that would look like, right? They had in their mind, these two people in bed they had in their mind, like it really became more clear of like what this means to have this person, have another partner or have someone that's, in addition to our committed relationship, quote unquote.

And again, the fear of what that does mean what if this could be if the relationship with this other person could be growing roots and it is more than just a sexual relationship and coming back to what is happening inside. If their stomach is and knots and they can't breathe, then I let's say their boundary is no. let's really say it's now and they show up and they can share with that person.

I've sat with us, I've thought about it as much as I can. My stomach is in knots when I think about it when I imagine it, I'm kind of time traveling to what this means. If you do this more. And so my initial response or my initial answer to this is no, I don't want this to be part of our relationship. Can you share with me if I'm on the right page, if I'm picking up the signals or if my fear is kind of clouding? Can you help me understand what makes you want to now take this further to do this and

that would be staying in the conversation and that could very well be once they hear that it could still be, can you give me some time and I might still come back with a no. And if I do come back with a no, we're gonna have to figure out what to do next. So it's a gray area and it's living in that about how this is actually gonna affect the relationship. But I would try to be as stating the obvious and, and being as transparent as I can about what I've explored.

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

It was so beautiful in the, in the way that you described like that, that example situation. And I imagine the amount of strength, the inner strength that one has to have to internally be soothing themselves while having that difficult conversation of expressing a no or expressing not right now. We may need to talk about this again, you know, in the future. Oh, I know. I imagine it takes a lot of practice to be able to get to that point.

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

I would say it takes practice rearranging and, and re and relaxing. Our people plays, their part does take some time because I think we have to go slow like we were talking about earlier. Communicating sometimes needs to be done before the people pleaser is in this. And I don't mean relaxed like they're on a beach right internally. I just mean that they're not all over the place inside with their fear and they lose themselves.

So when the communication has to happen before you're feeling ready, I ask my folks to do some nervous system regulation work to at least help them kind of burn off that initial high energy of fear and then write it down. It's ok to have it right there so that you can refer back to it. I asked them to recognize if they are holding themselves tightly, if they need to stand up while they're having the conversation, if they need to be back in their body.

In other words, if they need to take a break and go wash their hands in cold water or, sit on the floor and feel more grounded. So those, those helpers along the way can help you have the conversation when it needs to ha when it needs to happen sooner than later.

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

Yeah, I, I appreciate those pointers because sometimes we, we're not given that, you know, opportunity to have a relaxing, ready to have the conversation when we are ready to. Sometimes it's, it's go time. Yeah. I feel like I could talk to you for hours. Vicky. but I don't wanna take up too much of your time and maybe we'll just have to do another episode together totally.

Yeah. th this has been really eye opening and, and I think what I'm getting from, you know, trying to recover from people pleasing is what you're saying is like, tune into that vulnerable part of yourself and let it be shown.

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist, Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

Am I getting that right to you first so that you can develop a relationship with that vulnerable part of you and then you can speak for that vulnerable part.

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

That's another lovely thing we have in internal family systems is the difference of speaking from apart or for apart. So really showing up for yourself so you can speak for your vulnerable side.

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

I love that so great. So with this conversation, I, I don't think it's gonna stop here. So we probably, you know, have lots more to talk about but for, for people who just want to dive more into the world of people pleasing and, and learn about you from you, where can they find you and what, what have you got to offer? How do you work with people?

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

Well, I'm on the socials, you know, on Instagram at power to the pleasers. Of course, I'll share with you all the ways to get to get in touch I do have a few things that I'm excited about, which are a few little mini courses for people less than an hour. Diy. However, some of what I talk about, talked about today is in a particular one which is called How to Say No nicely.

And I, I created the boundary sandwich. And so, that's, it's a three step process. So that's in the how to say no nicely. And you get to play with your shitty first rough draft of what you would say if you want to say it. You also get to work through some resentments you've been holding on to. So I love that little course and it, it packs a punch for, you know what it does.

I also have another one that is called No More back and forth and it's about decision making because in people pleasing world, we are in a choose you or choose me decision making process. And so this one really focuses on internal family systems and the people pleaser and the boundaries part how they kind of do an internal tug of war.

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist, Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

So if you wanna get a little taste and experience some of what we talked about today, those would be places that I would point people to, yeah, I mean, those two courses sound phenomenal for anyone struggling with people pleasing.

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

And I'm so curious to learn about the boundary sandwich. sounds delicious. So I will make sure that the show notes have all your links for people to contact you people, to check out your website, your courses. Any last words that you would love to give to my audience, either about people pleasing or, or anything, you know, in, in your world.

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

Yeah. You know what you think is monumental. What you think you're never gonna get over what you think is just you and your way of dealing with the world. It can shift and you can be the one that shifts that and it doesn't have to have a big intervention. It can be small practiced steps and you don't have to rush, but you can really change from the inside out so that you can sustain the changes. And that's what I love about ifs and mindfulness and body work.

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

Hm. Mic Drop. Perfect ending to a great episode. Thank you so much Vicky for being here. I've appreciated your time today.

Vicki Smith, People Pleasing Coach and Theraist

Thanks for having me. It's been fun. Yeah.

Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach

All right listeners. Make sure to check out all those links in the show notes and until next time, take care.