How to Open Your Relationship as a Non-Monogamous Newbie
Summary
Jess is passionate about helping others in taking steps to design and embrace their relationship(S) dreams! She shares her knowledge and personal stories through the lens of a trained clinician, in hopes that others can reach relationship success.
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In this episode, you’ll learn about:
How grief can show up as part of your CNM journey
How couples can navigate differences in their desires for non-monogamy when one partner is more interested than the other
How starting the opening up conversation with your "why" rather than "what" will lead you to better understanding
What steps can a newbie take after having the initial conversation with their partner about non-monogamy
How couples can address disagreements or differing opinions when it comes to setting boundaries
Jess is a licensed therapist, clinical social worker, and ethical non-monogamy relationship coach. After opening her previously monogamous relationship of six years, Jess quickly learned just how little information there was out there from professionals on how to navigate non-monogamy.
Noteworthy quotes from this episode:
"Humans evolve and change, and we don't want them to be stagnant because that would be hella boring."
“Don't start engaging with people talking with people putting it out there that you're until you've at least had that initial relationship agreement and boundary conversation because it's just, it's just not gonna go well.”
Connect with Jess
FREE Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/nonmonogamousnewbies
Web: https://bothandcoaching.com/
Connect with Paige Bond
Instagram: @paigebondcoaching
Facebook: @paigebondcoaching
Website: www.paigebond.com
Paige Bond hosts the Stubborn Love podcast, is a Licensed Marriage Therapist, and is a Polyamory Relationship Coach. Her mission is to help people-pleasing millennials navigate non-monogamy so they can tame their jealousy and love with ease. Her own journey from feeling lonely, insecure, and jealous to feeling empowered and reassured is what fuels her passion to help other people-pleasers to conquer jealousy and embrace love.
Free Jealousy Workbook:
http://www.paigebond.com/calm-the-chaos-jealousy-workbook-download
Free People Pleasing Workbook:
https://www.paigebond.com/people-pleasing-workbook
Disclaimer: This podcast and communication through our email are not meant to serve as professional advice or therapy. If you are in need of mental health support, you are encouraged to connect with a licensed mental health professional to receive the support needed.
Mental Health Resources:National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255SAMHSA’s National Helpline: 1-800-662-HELP (4357)Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741 for free, 24/7 crisis counseling.
Intro music by Coma-Media on pixabay.com
Transcript
Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
Welcome back to another episode of Stubborn Love. I am super excited, you know, in my community, I get to connect with all sorts of people and I'm really excited to introduce you to Jess. And Jess Lyn is a therapist, a social worker, ethical non monogamy relationship coach. She's like the trifecta. After opening her previously monogamous relationship of six years, she quickly learned how little information out there that there was from professionals about navigating non
monogamy, which is really true. Even when I started trying to learn, you know, from books, from podcasts, from youtube, there was very little information. So I'm super excited to talk to you today, Jess about all of the things on how to start the journey of navigating no monogamy. But before we get, you know, down to the nitty gritty on the, how to, can you introduce yourself and let listeners know who you are and what your journey has been to get to where you are today.
Jess Lynn, Non-Monogamous Relationship Coach
Yeah, absolutely. I really appreciate you having me on here. I always love, you know, talking to people who get it, I guess is the best way to say it. Yeah. So me, let's see. It's been a journey. That's the best. Yeah, that's the best way to put it as you know. So, I am a therapist by background, a clinical social worker. And I have worked in a lot of like different areas, mostly medical social work.
I worked in, hospice and with suicide assessment and prevention in youth. And then I joined a practice and got really into grief work and there's so much, I, I just find it so funny to like what I'm doing now because there's so much grief in no monogamy. And, and not to say that like, grief is a bad thing. It's just a normal human process. But it's, it's definitely something that's like, super evident in the nomi community and the queer community.
and it affects people differently. So that like was part of my, like intellectual interest, I suppose you could say in then starting my coaching business and like wanting to figure out how to help people, but really like it came, it came more than anything for my personal life. So, yeah, as you said, I, I'm married to my husband of, I've said this so many times, you think I'd know we've been married five, going on six years now and been together, going on nine and so this was like 2.5, I
years ago when I kind of was discovering and brought this up to him. So, we were like a decent amount into our marriage, into our relationship. And, yeah, I just, you know, it was in the middle of the pandemic and we're like glued to our phones and I was just seeing all this content on nooga and polyamory and all of these things. And I was like, this is interesting, you know, and could think of it from like my grief lens, my therapist lens, my like, intellectual, like sociologist,
social worker brain. But then eventually I was like, shit, this is not just not just an intellectual curiosity. Like this feels like me. And if I think back over my relationships and being what one would call a serial monogamist, it makes sense like I never all through high school college until I met my husband. I was in one relationship after another, after another.
And of course, people always had all kinds of judgment around like, oh, well, you must not have at that time. I was only dating men. So you must not have loved that guy if you can move on so quickly. And I'm like, hold up a minute. Like, why is that a thing? Like I, no, I didn't just so rude. It's so rude. I'm like, no, I, I wasn't just with this person for a year and then just suddenly have no feelings whatsoever.
And like, no, nor was I like dragging him along until I found somebody better or whatever. Like, no, this is, it never made sense to me. But I couldn't, like, articulate that. Exactly. Because people don't, you know, that's just how our monogamous brains work. So, anyway, like, long story short, I was like, oh, crap, I think this is me, brought that up to my husband.
He was like, a little shocked, which is fair and, yeah, we kind of just started navigating and, like, writing stuff down and talking about relationship agreements and boundaries and what we were afraid of and all that stuff. And, yeah, that was 2.5 years ago. And now, in the beginning I opened up and solely dated women, because I had never explored like my queer identity or anything like that.
And then now, ironically, I have my second, not secondary, my other partner, is a cisgender male as well and I'm not sure how that happened because that was not the plan. But, you know, life is funny like that and, we'll be together officially together a year in like two weeks. So it's exciting, yay. it's fun to like, be celebrating like those, like the first anniversary thing again because, you know, you get married and you're like, well, you know, we did that right.
That's kind of like where I am now. And so in the midst of that, in figuring out like starting my own private practice, figuring out what I was gonna do with my career. As a social worker and like tying in like all of the, the grief stuff and also like wanting to work with couples but like, not really wanting to work with couples in a therapeutic
like lens and clinically in that way. I was like, you know, maybe, maybe this could work. And so the non monogamous relationship coach was born and here we are talking to you.
Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
Wow, what a journey, as you said, I have so many questions. I don't know where to start with. Gosh, I wanna hit a few different points. I wanna hit like some things about grief. I wanna hit some things about kind of, maybe how you handled that first initial telling your husband or, or probably even the thought process you had, prior to that because I know even approaching someone can be like a big heavy weight because you're scared.
You don't know how they're gonna react, right? So I, I'll just start at the beginning, like, just kind of go chronologically. So I'm really curious. I, I never thought about that concept of talking about grief and non monogamy, but you're right there is such a big intersection of the two that I don't think it's really touched on a lot.
And I wonder if like, since you've had specialized training and work in that area, I wonder how you think that really helps set you apart from just other people who may not like touch on that topic when working with non monogamy.
Jess Lynn, Non-Monogamous Relationship Coach
Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, we, when we think of grief and I've always, I don't know what's wrong with me, but I've always been obsessed with, like, grief lost death, all that stuff since I was like, a little kid reading like, novellas about whatever. So I've always had this and of course, my parents made fun of me and people made fun of me were like, how many people died in that book, right?
But I think like, that's what we think of grief as, right as death. That's like the only thing and the reality is that that's not at all accurate, right? Like there's grief and loss inherent in almost every part of life. And I think relationships is one big piece of that. And so like, I think monogamously we can think about like the end of a relationship or a divorce, right?
As, as a, a point of grief and loss, right? But we don't always think about the fact that I, for example, like as a person in a monogamous marriage, in opening up, I had to and still do sometimes grieve the loss of the relationship. That was not because it ended, but because it's very different. Now, I think both my husband and I would say very different in a good way, in a positive way.
And that doesn't mean that there's not grief, right? Like I think there's grief in like the, that maybe you spend slightly less time together because you're spending time with other people. And this is like an active choice you're making and something that if you're doing this in a healthy way, like you're checking in with your partner and everyone's ok.
No one is feeling like left out or like this is a bad thing and it's still a reality. Like we can't just pretend like that's not a thing. And then I think a big piece of the grief part is is, you know, grieving the future, like the vision of the future that you had, right? And so, you know, the vision of the future that my husband and I had before looks very different now again, in what we would say is a positive way, but that doesn't mean that like there aren't times where we're like, man,
like, what would it have been like if we didn't do this? Right? And I think, you know, those are just human emotions and so often we just like shove them down or like, no, no, no, I can't think about that because that means that I don't enjoy what we're doing or we shouldn't have done this or we made a mistake or none of that is true. Like there's so much and, and is my favorite word.
I tattooed it right here. I literally needed a constant like permanent reminder. So like there's so many ans here, right? Like, I love my husband and I love my partner. I love the future that we are creating together and with the potential of like other partners with my husband as well. And there are times where I think, gee, I wonder what this would have been like if we never did this?
Like, where would we be right now in our life and our marriage and our careers, would we be still living where we live? Would we have moved? But you know, like there's so many things that you do let go and this is like, this is just life in general, right? Every time we make a big life decision, we're changing the trajectory of what we thought the future could look like.
And so I just think, yeah, I mean, I guess you're right. I never, I never really thought of it like that but give me all kinds of ideas now. Thanks. Yeah, I do think that like that's a, a different take that maybe I have and can like look at versus what, you know, other people, everyone experiences it but like do we put language to it?
Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
Yeah, I'm so glad that you covered that and talked about that in a way because oh, gosh, like, no, not even personally for me because I'm also thinking about my own experiences, you know, when I've tried to navigate non monogamy myself, I'm thinking about even just recently my work with clients, you know, kind of the theme actually, this, recently has been grieving that future.
You know, they were talking about, I've had people talking about like, times of like, oh, yeah. You know, we're going to look for houses or we're going to look for a car or we're about to, you know, just get married and I, I'm doing all these things with this active choice in my head knowing. Ok. But we're also exploring non monogamy. So it's not quite what we had pictured for ourselves when we originally got into the relationship or when we originally got married or what, whatever,
you know, those things were. So I'm really glad you're bringing that up because I think it is possible for us to hold space for both, for that grief that can happen from that, you know, loss of what we thought for the future. But also this like, hope and excitement and all the other like, fun feelings that can come with navigating no monogamy. So thank you so much for going into that. I'm really glad you covered that, you know. So I guess I'll go back to when you originally brought up the,
the topic. So you kind of said your own process was ok. Well, I realized like this wasn't only an intellectual curiosity for myself, you know, I was actually like, oh, this, this is kind of hitting home for me at what point? Like, did you realize like, oh, crap, I need to like, talk about this with my husband. I, I actually need to explore this for myself. Like, what was it that really got you?
Jess Lynn, Non-Monogamous Relationship Coach
I have always been like a very big feeler. I've always, like, felt all my feelings really big and somatic. Like, I always have felt everything in my body. I actually just worked recently with a somatic coach who was amazing because I haven't always had like the language to put to it, but I've always known that like, I feel everything so, so deeply, like in like in my bones, like I like I get physical like, you know, and not everyone does or not, everyone's tapped into it or whatever and
it is not like this holier than thou. Like I'm so evolved. It's just this is how it's always been and honestly, there's nothing I can do about it. So I might as well just lean into it. So I think like there came a point where it's funny because no one's ever asked me this. There came a point where the weight of carrying this around with me. I feel it right now.
Like, am I like getting this? Am I got like, you're a feeler? Yeah. The weight of having read all these things done like research lightly, whatever. listen to things finding myself like one of the big things was channels like where like there's this one called I think, extraordinary love or my extraordinary life and then there's one like, love doesn't judge and like, these would come up and I found myself starting to get to the point where I would search for them.
Like I would go back to the page and be like, have they put anything new about? No monogamy? Right. And I did not have these words at that time. Right. Like I just had the words that they would say in the thing, but I, I didn't have and I just started feeling this like physical weight of like, not pain but like this like discomfort of like, I feel like I'm not being myself like by not telling him.
And, and there was a point where of course, like I was terrified of what he was gonna say. I had like a fairly good idea because I know him very well. And we have always had very, very strong communication and we had been to relationship counseling before, not because there was an issue just because we wanted to like, improve our communication.
And so I knew that like the communication piece was there, but of course, I didn't know what he was going to say exactly or like how I was supposed to respond. And yeah, I just started feeling this heavy, like, ok, like you need to get this out of your body like no matter what he says or whether you actually get to explore this or not. Like we tell each other everything and it was just like, so heavy.
Like I could feel it in my gut in my chest. Like I'm getting remnants of it and now, like, remembering and I just couldn't, like, I just couldn't keep showing up in front of him every day and like not saying, like, look, this is gonna come out of left field, but like, here's a thing that I've been reading a lot about and I am not sure what that means for me here is what I've been thinking.
I'm confused about what I really wanna do. Help, right? He's also my best friend. So it's like, also just like, help me. Like, I don't know what, you know. Yeah, I think that's like what brought me to that point where I was like, I cannot do this anymore. Like it's gonna, if I don't purposefully have it come out, it's just gonna come out and that's not gonna be great.
Jess Lynn, Non-Monogamous Relationship Coach, Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
So, yeah, that's, I think what happened, I'm wondering like to apply kind of your own tools that you use to help people.
Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
Maybe bring up the topic.
Jess Lynn, Non-Monogamous Relationship Coach, Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
What would you say are some good tips or the best ways to start that conversation, you know, in the healthiest way possible I think, think, you know, I think we can all like, imagine, you know, we as well as you know, your listeners, whether they've ever thought or imagined this kind of conversation, we can understand that like this is a huge conversation, right?
Jess Lynn, Non-Monogamous Relationship Coach
And that it's scary and like all of that stuff. So I think first just recognize like give that validity, let, let that be that this is a big deal and that this conversation could go a variety of ways and we're just gonna like, it sounds so simple coming out of my mouth. I promise it's not simple but like release the outcome. Like we need to have this conversation, we need to get it out and then we don't know what's going to come and we could, what if it to literal death?
So you can do some, what if it that's fine. And I do that with people, you know, like I do think that there is some utility in like talking, you know, when I talk through, people talk with people through like how to approach this. What? Tell me what you know about your partner, how have they reacted to certain things in the past, these kind of things? I do think there's utility in that, in thinking about how they might react so that you can maybe be a little bit prepared of what you might
want to say or not say or whatever. But I think on the whole you have, you don't know how this is gonna go. They don't know how this is gonna go. So to just tell you, you know where I'm not having this conversation to convince them of something I'm having this conversation to show up authentically for my partner and share with them something about myself. Right. so I think that that's huge.
Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
Yeah. I mean, that is such a beautiful, different mindset than I think a lot of people go in with, you know, a lot of people are like, ok, if I'm bringing this up, that means we're having the conversation about the change to this relationship rather than what you just described is I just need to be my truest, honest self and I'm sharing it with someone that I love.
I don't know what outcome it will have and the hope is that they will be supportive. But II, I think that changes such like the impact of the the person doing the approaching and, and leave like a lot of anxiety out the window. Yeah.
Jess Lynn, Non-Monogamous Relationship Coach
And I think like the way I usually frame it to people is like, let's lead with your, why not your what? So like of course, if you are the person bringing this up, you've got in your mind what you would like to get out of this, right? Like for me in the beginning, it was like, I wanted to explore my sexuality, right? So there are whats and there are things like you might in the and those things can change.
But in the beginning, you might be thinking like I'm gonna bring this up and ideally I would want this, what which is I wanna have threesomes or I wanna go to AAA Club or I want to date someone together or I want to, whatever it is that you conceive in your mind is what you want out of this. I encourage people like the first go around, just leave that part out unless they ask directly.
Then yeah, of course, you can answer their questions and, and you should, but lead with your why, like why is this a thing that you feel you need to bring up to your partner now? Probably because it's weighing heavily on you. I personally am polyamorous. And so for me and, and I think there are people in the poly am community that feel like being polym is like part of their identity just as much as being, you know, queer straight or other what you know is.
And for me, that is true. for both of my partners, it's not, it is a choice for them. They don't feel like it's like central to who they are, which is fine. So like some people will have that experience, right? Like I did of like, wow, this is part of me and I, I need to like, share that with him. But then some people, you know, even if that's not where you're at, I think it's still part of like, you know, you and showing up authentically right? To share with your partner.
Like, listen, I've been interested in my mind in this thing and I don't know what that means for us and I'm scared. I, I, you know, so, yeah, I think like, leading with your, why, like, why is this something that's important for you to share now instead of just being like, hey, so I've been thinking I'd really like a boyfriend, right? Like, that's gonna probably not go great. So that's kind of like how I try to conceptualize it, I guess.
Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
I, I really like how you describe one, the two parts of being able to like coexist in these different desires. So like you're saying how really this is more of a kind of like a relationship structure, orientation for you, it's part of your identity, whereas for your partners, it's more so like a lifestyle choice, you know, they're choosing to be in this kind of relationship structure with you, but they don't necessarily feel like it's part of their soul, part of their identity.
So I like how that you gave the audience just like some kind of background knowing that it can work different ways, it can, you know, you don't have to like, feel this in your soul to be able to choose to want to do it. And I think I work with a lot of couples actually who have that, right? There's sometimes in a monogamous starting relationship, there's this pool, you know, one partner will be more interested in this desire because they feel like it's more aligned with who they are.
And you know, the other person may not be like having any desire to do it, but they are interested, they are willing, they are choosing to continue the relationship. And I like the fact that, you know, that can coexist. So thank you for talking about that. I like the leading with why? Because I think you're right. If you start just talking about what? Oh, I want this, this and this, that just leaves so much what room for your partner to fill in the blanks.
Like they don't understand the reasoning for doing this. So I think that is really important. What is the next step that you would give to a newbie as like, ok, so you have the conversation, you approach it with the why and now your partner knows what's, what do you do now? Yeah.
Jess Lynn, Non-Monogamous Relationship Coach
You know, what do you do now? So, if obviously, you know, if they are not receptive, we're having a totally other kind of conversation, right? And that's very hard. And like, I, you know, one of the things that I, one of like sort of my mini coaching programs that I do, the conversation compass, is around this, like, I, I just, it just came to me like, in the shower or dream.
I don't know. So, yeah, like that's the thing is like, the idea is we're gonna do this like four week thing, right? I'm gonna lead you through like how to figure out your white, right? And go through like kind of what we just talked about. But then I leave the last session for after they've had the conversation because the reality is it is possible that they're gonna be like, hell no.
And now this person is gonna like, really need support around that, right? So obviously, there's no guarantees, right? You can approach this in the best possible way. You can know your partner very well. All of these things and they may not, they may not bite in terms of that piece. What I would tell someone is just let it simmer, like give it time to settle because people change their minds and not that we're gonna try to like coerce them and convince them into changing their minds.
But people do, right? Even even people who are ha you know, people have this conversation and they say, well, he didn't have a terrible reaction or she didn't have a terrible reaction, but it wasn't the reaction I was hoping for either. Just give it a second like it, it's very likely this whole thing is gonna change over time. Regardless. So we're not coercing people, we're not doing that, but just let like let the initial shock factor wear off, right?
If that's what you're getting met with in terms of like becoming a newbie and like your partner is like, hell yes or like, oh, ok. Sure, like we can try whatever like spectrum of like, OK, you get of consent really like whatever spectrum of consent you get. I think the next thing is and this is like so hard sometimes depending on where people find themselves in the process, like how much you keep to yourself before sharing, right?
And sometimes people will come to me and say that the way they discovered that this might be for them is because they have already developed feelings for someone or because someone has reentered their life or, and I by no stretch of the imagination, am I suggesting that these people are cheating because nothing has happened? They're just like, oh my God, I just had a realization that I potentially can have feelings for two people, right?
Or potentially I can like want to have a sexual experience with someone else even though I'm with this person, right? So this is hard, I think particularly for that group of folks. But what I would suggest is do not act on anything until you've talked about relationship agreements and boundaries. They're gonna change 5 million times but do not start and you're just, I don't want this to sound defeat us, but like you're asking for it, like just don't just don't do it, right?
Just don't, don't start engaging with people talking with people putting it out there that you're until you've at least had that initial like relationship agreement and boundary conversation because it's just, it's just not gonna go. Well, it's a reality. and so, and that doesn't mean that we've had to have like this whole, like gigantic. We've talked about it 18 times and we're 100% iron cloud etched in stone. It's never gonna be etched in stone. It's just not humans change
and evolve and we want, we're supposed to change and evolve. So, you know, I think though we need to have those like initial conversations around like, OK, thank you for being open to this. What are your fears? What do you feel like you'd be comfortable or uncomfortable with? What questions do you have? Like, we need to have that conversation before we go and share with anyone else that we're exploring this or, you know, get on dating apps or whatever. So that's important.
Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
I think I think you hit the nail on the head of like the first step after the conversation. Like what comes to mind for me is I've been really diving into a lot of stand to stuff lately and he talks about the concept of a couple bubble and how in your couple bubble in this monogamous relationship and you can have couple bubbles and multiple partner relationships too.
Your person is the first person that you talk about stuff with. You don't talk about changes to your relationship with anybody outside of that relationship. And so like from what you described, you're a go to person, if you're thinking about something, if you want to talk about it, unless it's with, you know, confidential of the therapist.
Like, of course, maybe you need some processing and help or a coach. But I like that idea of, let's not act on anything, let's not get on apps yet. Let's not even, you know, tell coworkers or anything like that. Let's talk about it with the person that this is going to impact. Makes sense.
Jess Lynn, Non-Monogamous Relationship Coach
Yeah. And I will say, I'll give a disclaimer if anyone has heard any of my other podcast episodes that I've recorded. I brought this up to my husband poorly and I will own that in that. Basically, what I did is made a bumble profile and showed it to him. Now, caveat to that. It was not, not published, it was not public. No one could see it. I was not talking to any.
It was just for me, the physical act of like, what will it feel like in my body and soul to see this on a, you know, like on a screen that I'm writing like I am married and considering exploring no monogamy. Right. Did I get on a dating? They technically, yeah, but I did not like I deleted that profile and waited until we, you know. So just disclaimer us and nobody thinks I'm like telling lies here.
But yeah, just don't just don't, it's just not, it's only gonna hurt is the thing. Right. Like, if I had gone ahead and, like, published, like, made my profile viewable and I forget even what that's called. But if I had made that viewable before we had, like, had other conversations, now I would have messages or mattress or whatever coming in and now I'm gonna feel torn of, like, I want to say something because she's really cute or whatever.
Or, or this person is also a no monogamist and they get it and that makes me feel validated. Right? I would, it would have been such a mess to have that, like, external fodder coming in when he and I had not yet discussed like, what this could even potentially look like. So, yeah, that, like, just don't, it's just not, it's not worth it. Just don't do it.
Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
Yeah. Yeah, because then you're kind of starting off trying to repair already breaking, you know, these agreements of your relationship already and it's really hard to move into. I'm not saying that that you can't, but it just makes it a little bit more challenging to move into navigating no monogamy when there's already even these little bits of trust broken along the way.
And that could be a big impact for, you know, somebody. It may not be a big deal for someone, but depending on the type of relationship you have in a relationship, agreement that could be considered cheating to some people. Right? I, I love that. You said, you know, don't take action, talk to your partner first. You kind of talked about saying that, you know, we need to have boundaries and relationship agreements.
How can people even go about that? Like, I know that you said that really a big reason you got started in this was who was like, big lack of resources on how to process, where would be the first place to start for people even like learning about what a boundary would be for them or what a relationship a grave up would look like.
Jess Lynn, Non-Monogamous Relationship Coach
Yeah, you know, I think a lot of nomi professionals or professionals who work with, I feel like almost everyone who works with non monogamous community is also non monogamous, but let's not paint a broad brush stroke, you know. so I think people who work with folks who are in this kind of exploration phase might have slightly different like takes on this, my take in terms of and I did not create this.
I stole this from someone else as we do as therapists and coaches, right? We don't reinvent the wheel for me. Boundaries are within me. Boundaries are personal to me. I am not comfortable with XYZ, right? Just like I would have boundaries in any other relationship, like with a boss or whatever, like it's, it's, that's a within me thing. So if there are things that I don't feel comfortable with like an example might be like, if I personally not out of judgment or whatever.
Just I maybe do not feel comfortable dating someone who I don't smokes or actively uses drugs or something like that. Right. Maybe that's like a personal boundary that's different from my partner and I agreeing that we do not want to entertain that idea. Right. And that's like, probably not the best example, but so boundary is like personal to me, something that I'm not going to entertain or that I don't think is healthy for me, these kind of things as an individual person.
And then we get this like kind of like dichotomy where we most people until they have the language, use the word rules, right? Like what are the rules here? And I have the exact same reaction that you just had I roll. Yeah. And I tried to remember that people just don't have the language yet. And that is part of why I'm doing what I'm doing, right is to help give people the language.
So to me, in my relationship, rules are above us, rules are like you will not do this, right? Which to me feels you know, paternal patriarchal, like all those kind of not like icky things, right? Scolding. Yeah, like you won't like there like there's a consequence, right? Like you won't do this or else, right? And so one example of like a rule that is perhaps somewhat common, I would say commonly known in the nominal community is like a one penis policy where like a male partner will
say to a female partner, you can have sex with or have other partners, but they can't be male, right? Or they, they can't be they can't have a penis, right? So that's like a rule, right? Like a if you do this then, right? This is a non negotiable. It's like they're trying to create a boundary for you, which is not how boundaries work. So can we have rules things that are like above us that are like hard and fast?
Probably not gonna change? Sure. Like it is possible it is conceivable to have something like a rule against dating someone who maybe we have a rule that we don't date anyone with Children. So it's not to say that all things that we might consider rules are bad. It's just we really need to be mindful about like what we're saying here. And I also think we could see that like not date someone with Children or only date people with Children as a relationship agreement more so than a rule,
right? Like this is important to both of us. So I personally encourage people to try to like really work on focusing on boundaries and relationship agreements, boundaries and relationship agreements. What are you, what things are you setting for yourself and what things are you mutually truly agreeing on? Not where someone's trying to say I want this to be a relationship agreement and you're like, ok, I guess because that's where it kind of like becomes a rule.
It feels like to me. So I think that relationship, agreement wise again, we feel in the beginning like this is gonna be etched in stone and we got, we have to figure this all out right now. It's like when you're in high school and someone's trying to tell you, you have to know what you have to do for the rest of your life when you're like 17 and you're like, how the hell what?
No, that is not how this works. Humans evolve and change and we don't want them to be stagnant because that would be hella boring. Like come on, we don't need to approach this relationship agreement thing as if like, oh my God, we're never gonna be if I don't say this thing right now, like it's not like that. So I think the most important thing is to think at minimum, think broad category relationship agreements.
So in there, I would throw in like sex. obviously, like there needs to be a discussion around safer sex and I think that that is maybe a more staunch rule, but again, they can change over time. But like these, this is our health we're talking about, right? So we need to be in agreement about like barrier protection, pregnancy prevention, those kind of things.
Like we need to figure that out and not only figure out like what that means between us but like what is our expectation then of what our part, what kind of conversations our partner is gonna have with someone else before something like that happens, right? So that's like a big category. I think another one is another big category is like disclosure.
So like who are we gonna talk to about this? Are we gonna talk to anyone about this other than the people we're dating? Right? Are we gonna post anything on social media? Are we telling our parents? Are we bringing dates back to the house? The neighbors might see, you know, like that kind of like larger conversation and in the beginning, a lot of people feel very strongly that like we need to limit that at first and I don't think that's a bad idea as you're trying to like figure these
things out. So I think we start with like big categories, hard nose sex, and safer sex, all of that disclosure. And then this is kind of part of disclosure. But I think another big important category before you start anything is what are we OK with talking to other people about? Like what between us about our relationship about our, whatever are we comfortable with sharing with other people?
And that, that can go up to and including meeting other other partners, right? But we don't necessarily have to get there yet, right? Like we can get there when there's a person that we're maybe thinking about this with. Right. But what can I share with someone that I go on a date with or a play partner? And what is something you want to keep to yourself? So, I think those are like big ones. But, yeah, it's, it's hard and, and that's the thing is there's not a, a ton of very specific
information. I'm actually, I'm in the process right now of creating like a, a freebie guide on this because there's literally like, not, it just doesn't exist. There are books certainly, but I wouldn't say everything's particularly accessible so very important conversation to have and hard to think about like what these things might be like, which is another reason why I'm doing what I'm doing because this is a big part of walking through the beginning steps of this.
Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
Yeah, I think one of the hardest parts too, like I love how you described the different things that are very important to hit from the beginning with the relationship agreements. I think the question on everybody's mind is, well, what if I'm not happy with my partner's boundary?
What if I don't agree with my partner's boundary? What if you know, they say don't fuck my friends or don't fuck my boss and they think they're really hot or what if I want to go to swinging clubs? But they want to make sure that we have emotional connections first.
Jess Lynn, Non-Monogamous Relationship Coach, Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
Like how do you approach working with people when they don't agree with great care and sensitivity?
Jess Lynn, Non-Monogamous Relationship Coach
Yeah, it's, it's hard because you're not, it's not like you're gonna have this conversation. Does that happen sometimes? Sure. I mean, like when my husband and I had this initial conversation, we were like barely in agreement on a lot of things. But we, like we started out, we knew we wanted to explore polyamory specifically and emotional connections.
We started out agreeing that we are going to be hierarchical. We are not hierarchical now and that's a, you know, a shift in a relationship, agreement that we both agreed to, but it very easily could have not gone that way, right? So I think it's difficult because I understand like from personal experience, what it feels like to be the person who maybe wants to stretch a little further and their partner is like, I don't know about that.
So to some extent, and I cave out this because, you know, there are situations, but to some extent, the team can only go as fast as the slowest player, right? Like to some extent, we have to, if we're the person bringing this up, this is brand new information if we want to do XYZ. But our partner is like, we have to give space for that, right? I'm not saying that like you just cave to whatever the the more whatever words, skeptical, unsure, uncomfortable, not hesitant, yeah, hesitant.
That's, that's what, yeah, we don't always just cave to whatever the most hesitant person like wants. But I think we need to, like, leave space for that and, you know, if you're in the middle of that conversation and they, you say I'd like this to be in agreement or whatever and they're like. I think we can say like, ok, do you feel like we can talk about why?
Like, do you feel like right now is an OK time to talk about like, what's coming up for you? Like what's coming up that you're like? Nope. Like what is the fear? What is the feeling? What is the, and can we talk about that thing if we can't talk about it right now? Let's return to this conversation. And, you know, we eventually, ideally this whole process is a pressure cooker for growth and we, we want to help each other get past this.
I don't know. That's just how I feel, right? Like, because there is a reason and you may or may not. I'm, you know, I've done that many times with my husband where I'm like, I don't think you're lying to me. I think you really maybe don't feel like, you know right now why you feel like that. But you do know there is something you don't just feel like it for the heck of it.
Usually most of our decisions and feelings are based around, I'm gonna, I brown it but like, fear and shame if you're having this, like, gut wrenching, like, nope, like reaction. What's the fear? What is it that you're afraid of? And is there a way that I can reassure you or we can talk about, like, what would happen? Right. Like one of the, one of the things when we opened our relationship and I was dating women and I, you know, shared with my husband, like, what do I do if and when I fall
in love? Like, what do I do? Do I? Can I tell her that? Like, how do I like, I don't, I feel like I don't need your permission but also like, how much do you want to know? And like, what if this turns into like some really deep thing? And of course all of that me spiraling landed me to what if I'm a lesbian? What if I do this? And I'm like, oh my God, this is what I've been missing my whole life and I do not want to.
And he was like, well, I don't know, like, I don't know what we will do but what I can promise you for sure is like, I'm not gonna judge you. I'm not gonna be angry with you. I just am gonna have a lot of feelings. And so like, it's OK that you don't know what's under these things. But I do believe that with support again, ideally Right. Like, there's not a lot out there, but there are people out there like you and I, who are coaches and therapists and professionals in this area that, like,
really do desperately want to help people. I wish that I had had someone to, like, tell me all the things I'm saying now because I'm sure right now it sounds like very eloquent coming out of my mouth and like, oh, she's got all her shit together. But like, no, it is not like that. My husband went out on a date a couple of weeks ago. My other partner was here and I literally said it sounds comical, but I literally sat on the couch with my other partner crying to him about how my husband was on a
date. It happens and it's been 2.5 years. It happens. We're human and then I'm apologizing to him. I'm so sorry that this must be so and he's like, it's not weird, you're a human being and you have feelings, it's OK like it's OK. So, you know, I I just, you know, it sounds some kind of wake on me in my mouth but like it's not like everything is just perfect all the time in my relationships either.
Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
Thank you for also saying that and validating that it's normal to just kind of stumble along the way like it's not going to be an easy, smooth road and there are going to be real feelings and that doesn't mean you're doing it wrong because I know we kind of get in our head of like, gosh, I gotta do non monogamy the quote right way.
And you know, when it feels just a little bit off balance or it feels like you shouldn't be crying or that you should not be jealous, then you're like, oh, gosh, I must be screwing it up somehow. But you're just a human, right?
Jess Lynn, Non-Monogamous Relationship Coach
You're just a human being, having a human experience. It's just like, I think there's a big, and we get in our head so much. You're absolutely right. There's a very big difference between doing non monogamy correctly and doing it ethically, like, ethical and honestly is what we're going for, right? Where we're being transparent and all of those things that is what we're going for, we're not going for correctly.
Like, there's no, like, perfect way to do this. Just like, there's no perfect way to be in a monogamous relationship either. There's no, like if you don't want to have kids, that's ok. Even though the world is gonna tell you that you get into a monogamous relationship, you get engaged, married, you buy the house, you get the little white dog, put up the fence and have kids, right.
That's just like shutting on yourself like you, there's no, you don't have to do it a certain way. The only way you have to do it is honestly, that's what we're going for is honesty, not perfection and, and checking boxes and doing it correctly because that's not how humans operate.
Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
No, we definitely don't. I feel like I'm gonna need you back on multiple episodes after this because I was already thinking that this is a crazy, like the very beginning, like there's so much more about like how to start this process in a really ethical and healthy way. So just for the time being, since we'll have to wrap up, thank you so much for being here. I wanna see if you can just let listeners know what you're up to, how they can find you.
Jess Lynn, Non-Monogamous Relationship Coach
Yeah, please find me. I, so I'm on on Facebook and Instagram. I'm under my like signature 12 week coaching program name, which is non monogamous newbies because is necessary. So, yeah, so I have a Facebook group that's free. It is private. People get concerned if people are gonna like, see it's private group and lots of like free educational content in there.
I go live every week, there's freebies in there and I post similar stuff on my Instagram as well. So that's like a great place to like find me, see, like kind of how I work, you know, watch more videos of me talking at the screen and at least I talk to a person now. It feels better. Yeah, so that's my big like signature coaching program. It's 12 weeks.
It's kind of like what we just started kind of talking about and then going on, which is why we definitely need to do this again. But yeah, it's like the, you know, coming up with your why types of no monogamy, which is the right time for you then boundaries and relationship agreements, jealousy, conflict resolution, grief, like all that stuff is in there.
And then, like I mentioned, I do, I do realize that right? In order for someone to like, want to and be ready to start that program, they either are like solo exploring this or they are in a partnership where it's already been discussed, right? So I do recognize there are people who find me and are like, oh my God, thank God, I've been thinking about this forever and I don't know how the hell to have this conversation.
Like what in God's name am I supposed to do? So that's where I have like my mini one month, the conversation compass program as well where I like lead people through. Exactly. And like the idea, like I said is for you to have this conversation in the middle of this program. So that like, however it goes, you're gonna have support after that, right?
And it can be this beautiful thing where like we do the conversation partner is agreeable and then we can like transition into like the 12 week and like, you know, one thing that I am not great at being a salesman. So, you know, I just, I just want people to know that there are options, right? I also have worked with, or set up things to work with people in, in other ways that aren't these two, you know, things.
So, yeah, I that's what I'm doing at the moment and always coming up with new content and asking people my group for ideas and I love like other people engaging in and people saying, like, can you talk about this or like, what about that? And if I don't know, the good thing is there are people that like, we can reach out to and say like, well, I'm not a parent but I can reach out to, you know XYZ person who can talk about parenting and no monogamy, right?
So, yeah, I'm on the, the social medias. I do have a website. It's my business name with it, which is both and coaching because why not both? And that is both and coaching dot com?
Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
Awesome. And what's the name that people would type into Facebook to find your private Facebook group?
Jess Lynn, Non-Monogamous Relationship Coach
They could just type in non monogamous newbies. You will find it, I promise it comes up. I've looked, it's very exciting when I see it and or you know, like if you find my Facebook profile, Jess Lynn, you'll see at the top the banner like says no monogamous newbies and my link is there. But yeah, if you just search non monogamous newbies, it'll come up super.
Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
Ok. Well, I can't wait to have you back, Jess. This has been such a lovely conversation with you. Thank you so so much.
Jess Lynn, Non-Monogamous Relationship Coach
Absolutely. Thank you. I literally like halfway through. I was like, oh my God, I really hope she wants to do this again. So yeah, totally. Always up for it. We gotta, you know, we gotta stick together and, and try to help people, you know, get some more knowledge and education, both for people who want to do this with their lives and people who don't, but like, just want to learn how to like be curious instead of
judgmental, right? So, yeah, you're, I love what you're doing with your podcast and your business and all that stuff too. So, yeah, definitely. I'll definitely come back for sure.
Paige Bond, Open Relationship Coach
Awesome. All right listeners. I will make sure to have all of Jess's links in the show notes so you can join her group, look her up on social media or even start one of our programs. So until next time. Thanks for listening.
