Break Up with Your Phone and Reignite Your Love for Life | With Kyle Leishman

Get off your off and get ON with your life!

Kyle Leishman is a Life and Health Coach for people to get help with what ever problems they need to overcome.

Main Points from the Show: 

Kyle created a program to help people overcome smartphone addiction. He shares his personal story and explains his coaching methodology, which involves identifying the costs of phone use and focusing on small changes and mindfulness. The program aims to reduce phone time and move away from using social media as a crutch. Couples are welcome to join the program to improve their relationship. They discuss the obstacles people face and suggest taking small steps towards reducing phone usage, such as not bringing your phone into the bathroom.

Stay in touch with Kyle:

Email: kyle@level10lifecoach.com

Website:  https://level10lifecoach.com

How to be a Human Being Podcast: https://shows.acast.com/how-to-be-a-human-being

About the Host:
Paige Bond is a Relationship Expert and the Creator of the Jealousy to Joy Journey. Her mission is to help people-pleasing millennials navigate non-monogamy so they can tame their jealousy and love with ease.

Free Jealousy Workbook: https://www.paigebond.com/calm-the-chaos-jealousy-workbook-download

Free People Pleasing Workbook: https://www.paigebond.com/people-pleasing-workbook

Disclaimer: This podcast and communication through our email are not meant to serve as professional advice or therapy. If you are in need of mental health support, you are encouraged to connect with a licensed mental health professional to receive the support needed.

Mental Health Resources:
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255
SAMHSA’s National Helpline: 1-800-662-HELP (4357)
Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741 for free, 24/7 crisis counseling.

Intro music by Coma-Media on pixabay.com

Transcript

Paige Bond, Relationship Coach

Welcome back to another episode of Stubborn Love. And I think we should all listen to this one because if I ask you for a show of hands who have struggled to get off their phone, I think all of us can raise our hand at some point. And so today's special guests is Kyle Leishman, who's a certified life and health coach and he helps people overcome their self diagnosed smartphone addictions. So I'm super excited to talk about this very important topic that really kind of puts a strain on a lot of relationships that I see in my office. So Kyle, thank you so much for being here. Before we get started and kind of go on this journey of learning a little bit more about the cellphone addiction, can you just tell listeners a little bit more about yourself and how you came to be a certified life coach?

Kyle Leishman, Life Coach

Yeah. Thanks for having me on Paige. I really appreciate the, the opportunity to come on and talk to a wider audience. My personal story with cellphone addiction and how I became a life coach starts back in the COVID era. As many things did I was, you know, trying to stay at home and trying to not, you know, go outside much and trying to social distance.

I forgot what the word was. It's been so long, it's trying to social distance and I kind of took it to an extreme just because at the time I was single. I had a couple of roommates and I worked night shift. So I was always, you know, away when my roommates were home and then they were away when I was home. So I was the only one home ever. And I was like, this is cool.

I don't have like any human contact other than my two or three coworkers. And so like, there's no way I'm gonna get COVID. Well, it worked out. I didn't get COVID. But what I did get was a, a phone addiction and this is a very self diagnosed phone addiction. But at the peak, I was using my phone between 10 and 14 hours a day on average. It was severely limiting what I could do outside of my house.

I would spend hours and hours on youtube and I noticed my social skills in the real world decline and they were just dropping away. So any time I was at work I would social distance and go sit on my phone and just watch youtube videos on anybody and I noticed I was closing myself into this, this bubble where I wasn't letting any anybody in.

I wasn't letting anything else in. And that led to a, a bit of a depression. and this is where the, the self-help story and how I became a life coach starts. I originally went to school to be a pilot that was kind of my dream childhood and being a pilot, you have to be able to pass a medical exam and part of that medical exam, one of the questions is, have you ever been diagnosed with depression?

And if you answer yes to that question, sometimes the FAA can get a little stingy and they won't let you fly until you've proven that you're not depressed, you're not suicidal, you're perfectly OK and healthy to fly. So I didn't wanna go get professional help. I really wanted to go get professional help, but I didn't want to go get professional help because that goes on your record.

They can look at your record and completely go over any HIPAA stuff because it's the FAA and look into your files at all your therapists offices and your doctor's offices. So I said, how can I fix this, this depression part of me without getting professional help, which was hard. I don't recommend anybody do that. Therapists are out there for a reason. Use them. They're incredible.

I didn't wanna try to fight with the FAA. I'd heard horror stories of 3 to 5 years to get your pilot's license back and just tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees and stuff like that where you're fighting in court over? Hey, I'm not depressed. It was a one time thing. I'm fine. I promise. but you do have, you know, if you're a commercial pilot, you have hundreds of lives on board your airplane.

So, depression and pilots is a thing that goes very un unnoticed. and that's a, that's a topic for another time anyways. So I went to my library because I, I realized that I was starting to get into a depressive state and started checking out books on happiness on depression, you know, some psychology books and I just started reading and I was like, I know what it's called.

So if I know what depression is called, that means I can research it and find a way out. 6 to 10 months of reading book, like one book a week. I was starting to get the, the what and the why. But there was a really big how that was lacking, you know, a lot of the whats and whys that. I'm sure you've gone over in other podcasts. You know, you need to get outside and have physical exercise.

You need to see the sun. you need to eat, not only eat, but you need to try to eat a little healthier. That's great for your mind. So I just started implementing all these little things. And in the exercise category, it was in the middle of winter. and I was like, I don't really want to be outside that much. So I started doing yoga, you know, it was low impact inside.

It was really easy. And that yoga led to adding a meditation practice onto the end. So it was one day when I was meditating on kind of what I'm gonna do with the rest of my life that a thought just popped into my head and said you should be a life coach. It was like there was somebody talking to me. I believe in God and I believe that was him telling me this is the way that I need you to take your life.

So two weeks later, I was enrolled in an online course. It was between 20 and 40 hours a week for a year and I had my own life coach for that for the first six months of that course. every week we'd meet and it was incredible for me to have that other person to talk to. It was a professional that's been doing this for 10 years because I didn't really need a full on therapist.

A lot of my clients, they don't need a full on therapist. You know, any time the word trauma comes up or the word depression comes up. That's when I'm like, ok. No, this is way out of my realm. I can't talk to you about depression trauma, anything related to that realm. But as a life coach, I can help you do the how. So if you need to go talk to somebody, go talk to somebody, but I can help you with the how.

What my life coach did was help me with the how of the last part during this time in my life where I was reading lots of, lots of books and gaining a lot of knowledge. I was using my phone less but it was still 6 to 8 hours a day and that was too much for me still. So my coach helped me get down to two hours a day, which is great. It's a really good start and from where I was, you know, less than a year earlier going from 10 hours, 10 to 14 hours to two hours.

That was incredible. I was really happy with where I was, but I kind of wanted to take it further. So finishing up, life coaching school, I kind of had to figure out what I was gonna do with that. You know, there's a lot of different niche areas that you can go into. You know, you can be a health coach and teach people about mindful eating, or weight loss. You can be just like a grief coach, help people grieve a loss.

But for me, I realized that I had this incredible experience and it changed my life going from 10 to 14 hours a day down to two hours a day. So I got hyper focused on how can I create a program that will get my clients from where they're at to somewhere better? And my personal goal when I started creating that program was I want a 75% reduction in phone use. So that's, that's kind of my story of how I got into it, how I became a life coach and what I'm doing with that now.

Paige Bond, Relationship Coach

What a journey I think that is so incredible. One your, your perseverance, you really didn't give up like reading that many books and being that dedicated to like searching for answers, I think is something that not, not everybody can do that. That's like it takes a lot of effort and energy to be able to do that and to get from, you know, being on your phone 10 plus hours a day down to two is such a huge difference.

Now, I'm kind of curious for you when you're working with clients, what do you consider like how many hours on the phone or like what, what is it that's considered leaning into that cellphone addiction area in your eyes? How do you categorize that?

Kyle Leishman, Life Coach

Yeah. For me, it's not so much a a set amount of time. So the, the US average is about three hours and 15 minutes a day. which extrapolated over a week is 21, 22 hours. So for a lot of people, that's a part time job, so that's like a really good start to know the data behind what the average is. And the younger generations, you know, people in their twenties, thirties, our age are higher on that average.

They're more towards the 4 to 5 hours a day range. when it becomes a problem for me and what I tell clients when you know, they ask, well, why should I work with you or what's, what's the point where I need your help? I say, is your phone using you or are you using your phone? That's kind of my spot where I say if you can't get out from your phone using you A K A, you know, social media all the time, then you should probably think about change and, you know, it's, it's completely up to them if they want to change the addiction part.

I would say not a lot of people are actually addicted to their phone because like with any other addiction that gets into limiting your life, you know, it's, it's the thing that you literally can't live without, it's stuck to your, you're stuck to your hand all the time and it's negatively affecting all your other relationships.

Paige Bond, Relationship Coach

hm. I think, that phrase of like when it becomes a problem, is it using you or are you using your cell phone? I think that's something that not a lot of us really think about. I know that, a lot of this is out of habit for us now, at this point, right? You go to the bathroom, you grab your phone and surf on the web, you are waiting in line at the, coffee shop, you grab your phone while you're waiting to order in line.

And so that's interesting to think about like, you know, what is the purpose of using our phone? It used to be to stay connected for others and now we use it for so many other things to compare ourselves, using social media to find out the news, to look up and surf the web for information to read books.

Now, like there's, there's so many things that we use our phone for. So I think that's a really good idea to kind of stop and wait and ask yourself like, is your phone using you or are you actually being purposeful with, you know, doing whatever you're doing on your phone?

Kyle Leishman, Life Coach

Yeah, that's, that's kind of where my starting point.

Paige Bond, Relationship Coach

So what is can you kind of outline the process of what it looks like when someone comes to you for help? And they say, “man, I'm really on my phone way too much. It's kind of impacting my life to where I miss doing X Y and Z thing.” Like what, what is the process that you take someone through to be able to help them actually decrease their usage?

Kyle Leishman, Life Coach

Yeah. So the first thing that I do when they come to me, we have a get to know you session very similar to your first meeting with a therapist. And the first question is what do you want? And that's kind of a loaded question because a lot of people will say, oh, well, I just, you know, wanna spend less time on my phone and say, ok, cool. That's what you don't want.

But like what do you actually want? Do you want your time back? Do you want your relationship back? And that becomes the starting point for a really interesting conversation, which I like to call costing and we start going over what your phone is costing you. So basically, there's three forms of currency. You could say you have your time, you have your money and you have your energy and you could also include relationships in there as 1/4 thing.

First we start off with time, you know, if somebody's on their phone, six hours a day, seven days a week, you're talking 42 hours a week of time. you know, that's a full time job. That's a whole other career if you wanted it. And then we move into energy, you know, how much energy are you just letting go to that phone? It's a, it's a draining thing being on your phone, there's a lot of mental energy associated with always checking your phone, you know, opening it up just in the back of your mind.

Your subconscious is going, going, going always looking for that next little hit of dopamine in there. So how much energy is your phone costing you? And this one can also be a big one with sleep, which a lot of people don't realize is, you know, that phone usage before you go to bed every night can be really affecting your sleep in a negative way.

So there's a, that's a huge, a huge thing for people and their energy relationships, you know, you might come home from work and your spouse or your kids or whoever you live with is just sitting on their phone scrolling for hours and hours and hours. Can you imagine if you took 10% of that time to spend with them and have a deep conversation about something instead of just scrolling, you know, not, not all the time, but just a tiny, little bit of it.

And this whole thing that I call costing really helps people understand how much their phone is costing them in the real world in real time every single day. So that's the starting point.

Paige Bond, Relationship Coach

Yeah, I really like that. Starting point because, you know, it's, it's really interesting the, the magic or the power behind just analyzing and looking at where things are at currently and sometimes even just seeing how much time you're spending or money or energy, that it's costing you is enough to be like that motivator to like make changes quickly.

So I think that's a really great start to that process. So after you do that, and you kind of figure out, ok, where is this going? And what is it costing you then? What's the next step?

Kyle Leishman, Life Coach

The next step for most people is just a small, simple change. You may have heard this before but small, sorry, small hinges, swing big doors. So I've taken that in my program to a very extreme level and I don't rip the band aid off. I'm very against ripping the band aid off and going from, you know, like 10 hours a day down to two hours a day. It, it doesn't work.

So more the mindfulness approach to helping people get off their phone is the approach that I take. So step one after we've gone over costing the first thing I ask people to do is to not take their phone in the bathroom anymore and that's, that's it. So for a day, you just put your phone on the counter outside the bathroom, you go and you do your business, you come back out, you get back on your phone.

I don't, I don't really care. but that little tiny thing has been the biggest impact in almost all of my clients. If they can do that for two or three consecutive days, it's a start and it, if you fail it doesn't feel like you've completely wrecked your entire life. You know, if you fail and just forget that your phone's in your pocket, you take it out, you start scrolling, you might get halfway through doing your business and realize, oh, I have my phone on me.

I'm on my phone and I ask my clients just to notice that to not judge themselves for it, but just say, oh yeah, I brought my phone in here. Ok, cool. Just notice it and let it be because you you can't expect perfection on day one. So I try to make these little tiny steps as small as possible. And we'll just add little tiny things over the next however long they work with me every single day.

I've got a couple of programs. My 14 day program is the one I'm talking about specifically. And then after that first day, we go on a day two and that one, we we take a five minute walk outside with no phone, just a five minute walk and we notice our surroundings. You know what it does it, what does it smell like? Are there leaves on the trees? Is it fall you know, is it wintertime?

Is it cold outside? Is the bakery down the street making bread? You know, what are the sounds? Are the kids playing? and it's a really good way to reintroduce someone back into the outdoors, into the world that they knew as a kid. And from there we kind of focus on replacing our, our bad habit, our phone habit with something better, replacement.

You know, you can't just quit a bad habit. You have to put something in its place. So we will go and make a list of things that you did as a kid. Maybe you like to play Legos, maybe you like to play dolls, maybe you like to play Barbies, maybe you have kids that have that same enjoyment right now. And instead of being on your phone, you could go get a little creative with your kid and play some Legos. maybe you've always wanted to try that new restaurant down the street or that new recipe.

So getting curious is another big part of the program where you, you go and you just, you be a kid again, you get to be curious about all the things that you have. You'd be curious about the time that you have now because you're not on your phone. And that's a really big motivator for a lot of people. The big motivator in the beginning is time and then that'll shift to relationships and self-improvement over the course of the program.

Paige Bond, Relationship Coach

I had a random thought. I'm wondering, do you at all notice when people start making these swaps with not using their phone as often that they start to, just kind of naturally use other things, that, that would generally take longer to use because you're not using the power of a phone or internet. but that they probably get a lot of happiness out of it.

So, for instance, what I'm thinking of is, you know, someone who may use their phone for reading books, like on an app or something like that. Do you find that they make swaps for, like, paper books or anything like that? I'm just curious about that.

Kyle Leishman, Life Coach

Yeah, I have seen both, you know, some people really enjoy reading on a tablet. I'm not one of those people. so I did make that spot back personally to physical books. I'll go down to the library once a week and check out a book and read it and take it back the next week and the cycle has been going on now for almost a year that I've been doing that and it's wonderful. but I've seen a lot of people that just stay on their, on their phone. for them it's not a big deal to have that screen time on

Kindle or another reading app because it's a better waste, but not a better waste Of time. Sorry. That's not, it's a better thing to do on your phone than scroll through social media. So, if they do want to still, still keep using their smartphone a lot, we try to make the, the things they're using better. So, for instance, going from six hours of social media down to three hours of social media and three hours of reading a book. for me that's a huge, huge win.

Paige Bond, Relationship Coach

You're not only taking away the thing that's draining your life, you're actually adding something that's really great to it. I love that. I, I like how you talked about the kind of curious nature that can kind of be, just brought out in your process because I think our phones really kind of suppress that part of us because we have all the answers right at our fingertips literally. but that doesn't replace feeling the wind on your skin outside and seeing the birds sing and play with each other on your porch.

Like those are very unique experiences that you can't just get from using your phone. So I love this process. So then you start to make small changes. what else is really important when someone's wanting to decrease their phone time usage? what else is really important to continue working through?

Kyle Leishman, Life Coach

One thing that I find helps a lot is having an accountability buddy. Having somebody else that especially if you live with them. I love it when couples do my program together. because they get this kind of a little bit competitive about who can use their phone less. And if it's done in the right spirit, you know, when you're calling your significant other out and saying, hey, I thought we weren't going to be on our phones for these two weeks. It can turn a relationship into something better than it was when it started.

And that was kind of an unexpected side effect for me. because I'm, I'm single. I, I haven't really been in a lot of serious committed relationships. So having couples come in and do this program, the original purpose for me was just to get people off their phones and back into nature, back into curiosity.

And I've seen relationships get better because they're like, well, if we're not on our phones, what are we gonna do? And they have to talk, they have to communicate because they don't, they don't have anything else to do. They don't have anything planned.

They don't have any hobbies, they do as a couple. So seeing that has been very rewarding for me to see people go from just being on their phones all the time to having a nightly walk doesn't matter if it's raining or snowing outside or if it's sunny, they go for their daily walk every single day because they started doing that in my program because they didn't have anything else to do if they couldn't be on their phone? Hm.

Paige Bond, Relationship Coach

I love that. So since you mentioned now that you kind of had this happen where this has come to work really well for couples, how would you say, like, what is the best way to go about? Let's say one partner found out about your program and they're like, man, I would really love to do this with my spouse.

How would you even approach that conversation with the other partner? Like, what is the best way to even bring that up to show them? Like, hey, this could be really great for our relationship.

Kyle Leishman, Life Coach

Yeah, I think I'm not a relationship expert by any means, but I think talking about it in a way that would benefit the couple. so for instance, hey, honey, I really love you and I want a relationship to be better than it is. Maybe it's, you know, currently great. I like our relationship the way it is, but I think we could make it a little bit better.

I want to do this program and I would love if you joined with me, sometimes one of the partners is not going to really enjoy it. They're not ready for that change, they're not ready. So I definitely like, I don't force anyone into the program and I don't encourage anybody to force anyone into the program. But if you do have your spouse or someone, you love that does spend a lot of time on their phones.

A good exercise to go through with them is the costing exercise that I do. Very first. You can say, hey, this is costing our relationship X Y and Z. For me personally, my phone use is costing me this. I find it easier to frame from a, it's costing me this, not, it's costing a relationship this, but you are the relationship expert here. So how might you bring that up? Maybe?

Paige Bond, Relationship Coach

Well, I love the way that you suggested. and I don't, I don't even know if I have anything to add to that. That was pretty perfect because you, you kind of did the exercise of like showing the cost of what is, you know, not going so great because of all this phone usage. So I don't think I would even add anything else to it. That was perfect, Kyle.

Kyle Leishman, Life Coach

Well, thanks.

Paige Bond, Relationship Coach

What else is important for people to know about trying to decrease their phone time? Like I'm wondering like, what are some of the biggest obstacles that you see? That, that makes it really hard for people to get results.

Kyle Leishman, Life Coach

Instagram, Facebook, Reddit and youtube are the biggest obstacles I see. And day five and day 10 in the program are specifically aimed Day five is aimed at deleting one of those big four and day 10 is another one aimed at deleting one of those big four apps off your phone, whichever ones you use the most. And I'm not saying you can never use them again, but they were optimized for your phone.

So I've had a lot of people go and they'll sign into Facebook on a laptop and they haven't done that in years and it's so unfamiliar on a laptop or a computer that it's almost unusable. And so they know they still have access to it on a laptop but not on their phone. And that is enough for most people that they just kind of stopped using it almost completely, except for what it was intended for, which was, you know, sharing pictures of loved ones.

And it's a great platform for that for seeing pictures of your nieces and nephews and friends from high school that you maybe don't stay in contact with all the time. But man, it's a great tool for that. So I see them using it less as a crutch and more as a tool. Instagram is kind of the same way. It's almost impossible to use on a laptop. Like if you're up, you, I don't think you can upload pictures from a laptop.

You have to do it on a mobile device. reddit is interesting because it works really well on a computer. But for some odd reason when people sit in front of a screen, like a big screen, like a, like a, a laptop screen, they'll notice how much they're using it and I don't know the reason behind that, but going from a small screen that they're just scrolling while they're in line to a big screen where I guess they're probably sitting in their office where they usually do work and always

looking at the clock. Oh. How much time do I have left in my day? I think that might be the reason why Reddit is easier to stop using when you're on a computer. But those are the, the four biggest obstacles are just social media.

Paige Bond, Relationship Coach

Yeah, I'll kind of share my personal thing with social media. I've actually deleted the Facebook and Instagram apps off my phone and I'll have some people who wanna, of course, stay in contact with me. And so it, it is really frustrating to use on like a browser on a computer because it is not really built for that kind of usage. So I, I am the testimonial. I get aggravated trying to navigate everything because some of the content you can't even see.

I know that my friend, she'll try to message me like photos or something through Instagram or a post and it's like you must download the app in order to see. And I'm like, well, that's frustrating. I can't even see what they're my friend's trying to say to me. Hm.

Kyle Leishman, Life Coach

Yeah, it's, it's a really big thing. I kind of focus definitely on bettering communication. So going away from all the texting and sending each other memes and kind of that kind of, it's, it's really fun communication. But like you said, you know, it's a pain in the butt to communicate through those apps. So the best way we have to communicate is face to face. But second to that, why don't you pick up the phone and call somebody, you know, and that one releases, you know, it's, it's

kind of hacking your brain. So what releases the most good hormones? What releases that Oxytocin the most? Is it a text? Is it a video call? Is it a phone call or is it in person? So how can we make that the best interaction? It, it can be with our limitations of being so far away and using technology?

Paige Bond, Relationship Coach

That's really cool. I never even thought of it like that. How we can have these different types of interactions, having a different impact on really how, how connected we feel with each other. So, you just taught me something new Kyle. I really like that idea. because we do get to feel a lot more intimate whenever we're face to face with someone, whenever we can hear inflections and tones rather than reading words on a screen.

So I love that idea. So you talked about the the biggest obstacles really being those social media apps. Do you see any other obstacles when people are trying to better themselves by decreasing their phone usage.

Paige Bond, Relationship Coach, Kyle Leishman, Life Coach

Any other big things that get in the way, some of the big things are things that you should take care of in therapy.

Kyle Leishman, Life Coach

so for a lot of people, their phone can be a coping mechanism. It was their escape when they were verbally abused, they just, you know, get on their phone and run away. It was their escape when they were maybe physically abused, they would just hide in the back and be on their phone. So they didn't get bullied at school. So they didn't get bullied at home. So those kind of things are when I say, OK, cool. We're still having an issue, you know what, what happened in your past and this is

where the therapist comes in and can really help fix the underlying problem because I, like I said again, I'm not a therapist. I don't delve into that your past. And it's something that is, requires a lot more training than I received as a life coach. And really that I, I want to give because I'm not qualified. But that's probably the next biggest thing is there's an underlying cause that the phone is a coping mechanism for that I definitely can't treat.

Paige Bond, Relationship Coach

It's funny that you bring that up because earlier in this conversation, I was thinking of like, I wonder if, you know, the, the phone usage is a way of avoidance, is a way of coping which you just brought up. So, you know, I think that really can be something to dive further into, in, in therapy that can be a lot bigger than we realize the, the bigger impact and the bigger source of pain where that comes from, why we do what we do.

So that's really interesting about that. Well, Kyle, do you have any other things that you want listeners to know, for people who may be struggling with using their phone so much and, you know, they really want to start using it less. or just any other good self care tips, that you have about people who feel like they're addicted to their phones.

Kyle Leishman, Life Coach

Yeah, I've got probably two things that I would say. one is seriously if you're even curious about how much you use your phone, open it up, go to the screen time app multiply that by seven and that's how much time you use it a week. And then if you want to start seriously, the first step is something small, like not taking your phone into the bathroom. A great second step is, at the dinner table or, you know, at the, in the break room with your coworkers leaving that phone somewhere else.

and step by step one at a time, don't just jump in 100% because you'll fall back down and it'll hurt a lot more than just the one little mistake. And then the second thing I have more focused on self-care is kind of a motto I like to, to live by. And, you know, we've all heard the golden rule, you know, treat others as you want to be treated. But, but my motto is treat yourself how you want to be treated.

Paige Bond, Relationship Coach

Treat myself how I want to be treated. Yeah. it looks like the I don't know if you've seen parks and rec but the whole treat yourself kind of a mentality is, yeah, I, I do want to be treated well and why am I not treating myself well, whether that's decreasing my screen time on the phone, making more connections with other people.

Those are super actionable and super great first steps. So I love this conversation today, Kyle. if people want to hear more about you or learn more about you, where can they find you?

Kyle Leishman, Life Coach

Yeah. So my website is level10lifecoach.com and I don't really have any social media, you know, kind of would be a little ironic and hypocritical if I did. if you try to find me on Facebook, you'll probably find my personal profile. I have like 100 friends that I actually talk to in person at least once a month.

So I probably won't accept your friend request. Don't be offended. And then I do have a podcast that I just started Paige was willing to come on it and be one of my first guests and that is called How To Be a human being. That's available everywhere.

Paige Bond, Relationship Coach

Yes. And listeners, the How to be a human being is a super amazing podcast. I'm just gonna boast about you Kyle, where you're gonna get to learn like very actionable things to improve your life in every episode. So go give a listen as soon as you're done with this episode, check him out and I'll have the links for Kyle in the show notes as well.

So, thank you so much for this conversation. I think it's really important and something that we don't talk about often. So I really appreciate you being on the show today, Kyle. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on. All right listeners. Until next time. Stay well.