Seek the Risk: Non-monogamy through the eyes of an extreme sports participant
Summary
Adam discusses how extreme sports have influenced his perspective on non-monogamy and how facing challenges such as jealousy and self-worth issues have led to personal growth.
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In this episode, you’ll learn about:
Adam's experiences with jealousy and imposter syndrome in a non-monogamous relationship, emphasizing the importance of autonomy and choice in exploring different sexual experiences.
Adam making the connection between his fears in extreme sports and emotional challenges, emphasizing the importance of managing fear in ENM relationships.
Adam’s experience dealing with stigma and judgment from people who didn’t understand his chosen path for non-monogamy
Bio:
Adam has been an adventure seeker his whole life. Climbing some of the world's steepest mountains, snowboarding epic backcountry mountain terrain, and BASE jumping off of objects and cliffs. Seeking the risk rather than the reward has been his guiding mantra and life philosophy, and it's what drew him into the world of non-monogamy at the age of 40. As Adam likes to say, he strives to get comfortable being uncomfortable because that's where his real living begins. But non-monogamy ended up being the ultimate test of his commitment to that philosophy.
Resources from this episode
Brad Wetzler - Memoir Mentor: https://bradwetzler.com/writing-mentorship-program/
Noteworthy quotes from this episode:
“I had to honestly solve my personal issues in my psyche around the impostor syndrome because that's what was driving a lot of the jealousy. And then once I got there, I could really sink into the healthy jealousy.”
“Masculinity was deciding about what kind of man I wanted to be. Do I want to be someone that friends, lovers, family members could count on, could they count on me physically? They can count on me emotionally. It meant being strong, not just showing people you were strong."
Connect with Adam
Website: seektherisk.net
Seek the Risk on Amazon: https://a.co/d/0MXdVMs
Connect with Paige Bond
Instagram: @paigebondcoaching
Facebook: @paigebondcoaching
Website: www.paigebond.com
Paige Bond hosts the Stubborn Love podcast, is a Licensed Marriage Therapist, and is a Polyamory Relationship Coach. Her mission is to help people-pleasing millennials navigate non-monogamy so they can tame their jealousy and love with ease. Her own journey from feeling lonely, insecure, and jealous to feeling empowered and reassured is what fuels her passion to help other people-pleasers to conquer jealousy and embrace love.
Free Jealousy Workbook:
http://www.paigebond.com/calm-the-chaos-jealousy-workbook-download
Free People Pleasing Workbook:
https://www.paigebond.com/people-pleasing-workbook
Disclaimer: This podcast and communication through our email are not meant to serve as professional advice or therapy. If you are in need of mental health support, you are encouraged to connect with a licensed mental health professional to receive the support needed.
Mental Health Resources:National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255SAMHSA’s National Helpline: 1-800-662-HELP (4357)Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741 for free, 24/7 crisis counseling.
Intro music by Coma-Media on pixabay.com
Transcript
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
Welcome back to another show of Stubborn Love everyone. I think you're probably going to be seeing a trending topic here talking about no monogamy and our guest today, we are going to be talking a lot about his own journey into no monogamy. And I want to introduce Adam who is really a self published author. Just kind of detailing some life experience that he shared. I think he's already pretty cool. I haven't gotten to finish his book, but he's done some really extreme sports like
climbing mountains, snowboarding, base jumping. So like me and my adrenaline junkie self, I'm like already down like Adam's a cool dude already. So can't wait to introduce you to him and we'll talk about his new book and really his whole life journey on how we got here today. So, Adam thank you so much for being here. Can you tell listeners really your journey on what got you to write a memoir, especially about journeying into non monogamy.
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
Well, hi and thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. I didn't set out to write a book. It was an accident. Really? I, I met a woman, when I was 35 that kind of blew me away and I just instantly fell for her and wanted to be with her. And she was sort of like you in that she was a very public person that was out there, giving sex education. And she also promoted non monogamy.
Not saying that's the way to live, but she was saying, hey, it's an ok way to live it. That's what she want. And she was very public about her own non monogamy. And I really wanted to be with her. So I was like, wow, ok, this is, this is interesting. I had dabbled in some non monogamy, you know, quotes non monogamy, you know, threesomes. I don't know if that really counts.
So I embarked on this relationship with this woman. At some point in the journey, I started writing an essay about my experiences because the, the whole thing really broke me down. At one point. I, I basically became a shell. I, I lost all these cues in my own head about who I was as a man and, and what, what I myself worth and everything.
And monogamy really, really kind of blew a lot of veneer away from me. And when I came out the other side, I said, you know, that was really, that was really interesting because I relied on a lot of my experiences in the extreme sports world with skydiving and base jumping and, and free soloing rock climbing. When, when I hit rock bottom in the relationship, I said, ok, let me start thinking about it like an extreme sport.
And I, and when I got very calculating about it, it, it really helped move me through. And so at about the 67 year mark in the relationship when I was in hitting my stride and everything was going great. I said, you know, I should write this down. That was kind of interesting. And what started out as kind of a fun little essay, ended up becoming a 250 page book.
And so far it's, I've been really pleased with, with, with it, with the art and so have other people. It seems so, I'm, I'm pretty excited that that's, that's how, that's how the book came about. If I want to give a little background about me, I grew up in New York City in the sort of the late 19 eighties and nineties when New York City was a pretty adventurous place to be.
My parents were not overbearing, they were very liberal. So I kind of had the run of the city and, and it was in that environment of New York City where I learned the value of exciting experiences, you know, things like going into the bad sections of town to buy weed or to buy fireworks. And it was terrifying because I was a kind of a small kid that, that changed as I got older, but I was a small kind of frail kid and, and I always, I felt very vulnerable physically.
So the fear that I experienced in, in doing those dangerous things, buying fireworks in bad sections of town, going to the housing projects to meet people in stairwells, to buy, to buy weed. I came out of those just like so on fire. Like, wow, that was incredible. And, and that's where I started, I started learning how much I liked those experiences.
Now, did those experiences shape me or did I see out those experiences because who I was nature and nurture that, that I don't know. But then as I got older and, and left New York, I started seeking out adventure sports. So, you know, extreme snowboarding, extreme climbing, big mountain climbing, skydiving these kinds of things, these thrilling and then I started competing in these sports as well.
And, and I really fell into that, that world. There was a point in my life when I started realizing that a lot of the things I was doing was for second party validation, not for my own pure satisfaction. And there's this one point as I describe in the book, in my late twenties when a college buddy and I heading towards this, this big multiday climb on a mountain.
And as I'm hiking in, you know, and it was gonna take a few days. It's kind of a non-standard route. It had some risk associated with it. I was thinking to myself, man, I wish this was over already so I could add this climb to my climbing resume. And I was like, it was like, it stopped me in my tracks and I was like, wow, I'm more excited to tell people I did this than actually doing it. And that sort of opened up this, you know, this idea in my head of I need to be excited to do things, not to be excited to tell people I did them. And so that's that, that's where the title of the book I'm Seeking the Risk. The full line is Seek The Risk, not the reward, but that's kind of too long of a title. So that's a little background of how I got into it. And when I started applying that, seek the risk, not the reward to my non monogamous relationship, a lot of things opened up and that's, that's what the meat of the book is about.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
Question about like when you finally started applying to your non monogamous relationship, did you have in your head? The seek the risk but not the rest of it yet? The, not the reward prior?
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
Yeah, exactly. So when I was presented, you know, there's this moment in the book where I, I've been dating Jane, but sort of on the down low. My, my world doesn't, you know, my world is just, she's just start, they've started meeting her but they don't know who she is yet. I met her in the New York City party life and my regular world, my family, my friends, my work when they met her, they were like, oh, wow, this is amazing woman.
She's getting a phd from an Ivy League University. She's super smart. She's very attractive. She's outgoing. They were like, wow, she's remarkable. But when I on Facebook of all places, I got a note one night saying, oh Jane has listed as she's in an open relationship with you. Can you confirm you're in an open relationship with Jane? And I was like, oh my God, if I say yes to this, she's, I mean, that's great that she is telling the world that she wants to be with me.
But now my entire friends, family and work is gonna know I'm in an open relationship and it was really hard for me. And so the first part to seek the risk was like, well, you're afraid to do this because you're afraid of what people will think about you and will think about your partner. So seek the risk, go for it and I click the confirm button and, well, I'm not gonna give away too much of the chapter, but kind of all hell broke for a little bit in my world.
But I, I got over that and, and then moved into the actual, first it was the accepting the non monogamy and then there was, oh, wait, now I have to live the non monogamy and the living, the non monogamy totally broke me in this. I mean, it took a, over the first two years of our relationship, it broke me.
I hit this rock bottom where I just couldn't handle the jealousy and the threats, the mascula, the hits to my masculinity and such. And that's because all I was doing was seeking the risk. I wasn't actually, I, I wasn't thinking about the non monogamy correctly.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
You know, and I think you really bring a good point for a lot of sides of no monogamy that people aren't really focused on. If you're thinking about a monogamous couple that is like now opening their marriage and maybe one is more interested in the idea of no monogamy versus the other. I'm like, brought to this place where they're like, kind of losing that reward in sight, like how great it really could benefit them rather than feeling all of the negative feelings and, and being wrapped up in the jealousy, the low self worth the identity crisis at times. And so I think what you're saying, like a lot of people can really relate to.
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
Yeah, that's, so that's what you just said. That's the, that's the critical point was that there are all these motions surrounding non monogamy for what I would say, regular well adjusted people. We, we have jealousy, we have all these angst around. Well, my, my partners with someone else. not only jealousy. I was like, well, what if they're better than me in bed?
All, all these things right there, there's all this risk when I started really analyzing it. I, and this is where the, the, the transfer or the, the parallels with all the extreme sports is that when I started climbing, I thought that all the fear and the intimidation of the mountains were just obstacles in my way to get to the end goal.
And it wasn't until I realized that the fear and the intimidation getting through those and understanding them was the point, the goal, the reward, the climbing the mountain. Yes, sure. I want to stand on top of the mountain but it's, it's getting past all those difficult emotions to get there and the training and the fear getting through that is where is where the permanent marks in my soul are left by certain experiences. So when I started thinking about that with non monogamy, I was like, OK, hold on.
There's, I'm afraid I'm jealous. I'm, I'm afraid that people are gonna think of me as less of a man. OK? Instead of those being obstacles to the way of this wonderful relationship, I'm gonna have, I decided that those were actually interesting things to sort of sink into and understand and that getting through them. And when I say getting through them, I mean, understanding them and, and realizing what they were so they could exist at a healthy level versus unhealthy level.
Once I started thinking about it like that, that's when everything opened up for me. So there was this critical piece of like non monogamy was gonna be interesting because of the things it brought up, not in spite of it.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
Yeah, I love that. That is such a beautiful journey that I think people don't even get a chance to experience because they'll start going down this journey of non monogamy. And it brings up the jealousy, the questioning their worth, they're questioning their masculinity or femininity. And you know, I think it's really interesting how you took that as like a superpower to understand more and lean into non monogamy rather than whoa, this is way too scary.
Let me back out of it. Let me like this is uncomfortable. Let me stop. That's really courageous to me thinking of and I'm wondering like, what was it that really motivated you to do that? Like, was it this more ingrained DNA of seeking the risk and being adventurous? Like I'm wondering if that really plays a big part in it?
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
Obviously, it does. Everything's nuanced. It's, it's fun to make things black and white. But we know there's, there's nuances to everything I and there's a couple of things, one, if I had done this, you know, I this happened to me when I was 40. If this had happened when I was 25 there's no way I, no, there's no way I could have done it. And II, I just would have smashed me.
It would have run away. But it happened when I was 40 I had already done the grand thought experiment of life that most people do in their twenties and thirties, especially around all the sports where I had really started to understand my own emotions, understanding fear. I started recognizing fear for what it was. So when the fear and the jealousy came up.
Yeah. And I'm, I'm running towards the burning building because I learned that very often when powerful emotions come up, they're hiding something else and there's something to be learned there. And, and one of the things I think the end of the last, last line of chapter one or chapter two is I knew that didn't matter whether the relationship failed or not. And I said, I thought there was a damn good chance a relationship was gonna completely fail.
But what I knew is I'd come out the other side, a fantastically better version of myself no matter what because of what I'd learned about myself along the way. So there was that desire of like, yeah, this is gonna be really hard. But man, I'm gonna learn some cool shit about me.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
Yeah. Really? I think it sounds like the biggest driving force was you learning about who you are?
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
Yeah. Learning. I mean, learning in general has been a driving force in my life. I, I, yeah, I'm a sponge for that in itself, you know, what, what is it, research as research or something?
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
I think I've heard that I think, you're making a lot of things, make sense for me right now, as you say that because I'm also part of that philosophy of learning and researching. So this research idea, I'm gonna steal that from you, Adam. Thank you.
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
I stole it from someone else. So well, we're just thieves then totally everyone borrows.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
I wanted to talk about some, some questions I had for you. But, you know, it's kind of like, where do I start? Because there's, there's so much here that I, that I want to unpack and share with listeners because I think your experience is so relevant to what so many people go through, but it's so beautiful how you really came out on the other side of it and really took this as like a positive thing, maybe kind of talking about like jealousy first and then like going into, you've mentioned, you know, hits to your masculinity. So can you tell me like one, what was your experience with jealousy? Like what did it look like? How did you know you were jealous?
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
Well, knowing you're jealous is really easy. You get angry and anxious and upset and you just want to do something.
So, yeah, knowing I was jealous was that, was, that was the easy part. I landed on unhealthy and healthy jealousy. Right. There's unhealthy. I decided there's this, there's unhealthy jealousy and there's, and there's healthy jealousy and initially I was overcome with unhealthy jealousy of, I'm, she's gonna leave me, you know, like if she's hooking up with her guys, she's gonna leave me. What if someone's better than me in bed? A all these, all these fears around my self worth. I, I've battled imposter syndrome at various points in my life actually, throughout my entire life. It's something that I've, that I've struggled with with and a piece of me thinks a lot of my extreme sports participation was trying to prove how much of a man I am to other people.
Like, because I didn't believe I was. Well, let me show you what I can do, let me show you how tough I am. And, and that's totally analysis to, to what Jane was doing with other men and being afraid of how that would impact my relationship. So, the unhealthy part of that jealousy was, was rooted in not believing in myself is, is what I realized, you know, that this, this imposter syndrome and non, non monogamy sort of put that on steroids for me for a couple reasons.
The interesting thing about this relationship is, you know, I was the sexual neophyte for the first time in my life as an adult. I was with a woman who just, you know, she thought my sexual exploits were adorable. You know. And here I was thinking, like, she's like, how many people have you slept with? And I was like, hey, you know, 100 or whatever. And she was like, oh, that's cool. I've slept with 500.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
She's like, you're a novice.
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
Yeah. And I was like, well, what's the craziest thing you've done sexually? And I'm thinking, well, you know, I've had threesomes and stuff. She goes, well, I once got gang banging bua by 12 men. I was like, it was just like, stopped in my tracks, you know, being with her that, that, that really fed into this. Oh my God. I, she's gonna find out that I'm, that I'm, that I'm not good enough in bed because I'm not compared to her.
Once I really started diving into the emotions and unpacking all that inside me is when I, I started understanding that the, the parallels to the, to the sports are like free soloing. When I, as I moved through my twenties into my thirties, I free soloed for the thrill of it. Not to say I free soloed a particular climb, right? It's nuanced, but it makes, makes a difference, right?
That's seeking the risk rather than the reward. So with the jealousy I, I realized that if I wanted to sink into this, this environment of non monogamy, I, I had to do it without this idea of, oh my God, everything is gonna fall apart. I have to sink into like, oh, this is for the thrill. This is part of the thrill. The jealousy is part of the thrill, right?
If it's healthy jealousy, if the jealousy is there because, oh, I'm afraid of negative outcome fantasies because of insecurities within me. That's bad. If the jealousy is there because oh, she's got other lovers. Oh, yeah. Well, all right. II I can take that on. let me show you how good a lover I can be. And that's like super healthy jealousy.
So it, it took all, I mean, this took years. I, I don't wanna make it sound right that I i it took years of really understanding what was going on with me to, to reach that point where first I had to honestly solve my, my, the personal issues in my psyche around the impostor syndrome because that's what was driving a lot of the jealousy. And then once I got there, I could really sink into the healthy jealousy.
And I think it's chapter eight in the book, it's called Fight Club was sort of like the pivotal, the pivotal point in the book where I started really understanding what jealousy was when, where it was up to that point. I'm fighting and I'm fighting and I'm trying to find ways to dodge it. I'm trying to find ways to mask it. We do this thing in, in climbing, called Reframing The experience. So I was re which is great and wonderful and it helps in. Reframing is sort of like, oh, I'm jealous. She's sleeping with this other guy. Reframing. Go well, flip, flip the rules. What if it was you doing? It wouldn't you be? I didn't remember you had sex with a woman two weeks ago. So that's Reframing and Reframing is good.
But it, it, it helps cover over. You really got to dig in and find out where it was coming from. And that's sort of what, what the Fight Club chapter is about. really getting finally understanding where my jealousy was coming from and once I knew where it was coming from, I was able to get to let it go and sink into the healthy.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
Yeah, it sounds like leaning into finding really one understanding the other person's experience. But two doing what makes you feel confident, right? So we have these insecurities that can light up jealousy and just make that feel so intense. But it sounds like leaning into, ok. Well, maybe I am good at this or maybe I can do this and kind of like being encouraging to yourself too.
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
Absolutely. There's this one, she was a blogger and she blogged about our sex life.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
What a spectacle.
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
Oh, yeah. Spectacle. All right. Don't wanna give away too much. But that, that was a tough one. But one of her blog entries is I overheard my husband, me, talking with a friend of his, the other day, he asked his friend, you know, how's it going with his, your new girlfriend? And my friend was like, oh, it's great. She's only slept with two people. She thinks I'm really good in bed.
And I was, I said, oh, that's awesome. My wife has slept with 600 people and she thinks I'm pretty good in bed too. I trust her opinion on this subject. And he's like, wow. Yeah. Yeah, I guess you're right. So there was this moment where I was like, wow, I'm probably with the most sexually experienced person I've ever met in my life and she's, she's coming back for more.
We've been together six, you know, 56 years at that point. And, and it's like, obviously I'm, I don't suck in bed. I, I may not be the best person in bed she's ever slept with, but I'm certainly keeping her coming back. So it's like looking at cues in my life that indicated that this imposter syndrome or that I'm not good enough were totally false.
It was my brain fucking with me just the way my brain fucks with me when I'm climbing and trying to convince me, oh, you're gonna fall, you're not good enough. You're all these things. It's, it's literally the same mental battle just without the physical, without the physical risk, it's emotional risk, right?
Kind of going back to the, the physical. Like when you're doing an extreme sports that you get those intrusive thoughts that tell you you're gonna fall, you're gonna slip or you're not gonna do something correctly. Where did those come from? Is that also connected to the impostor syndrome? And it's just intrusive.
You know, there are climbers. I used to think there was something wrong with me because I had fear. All right. But then I realized no fear is natural. It's how you manage it. And that is the indicator of how strong you are mentally, not whether you have it or not. So your fear is always there, how intense it is for me versus you. You know, it's gonna be very individual.
Yeah, I've been flooded by feelings of, you know, visualizing myself pitching off mountains and falling to my death and such when I'm trying to climb and if you can't put those aside, you're, you are gonna make mistakes. So it's absolutely critical to sort of exist in a mindset where you can, where you can manage those emotions. Where do they come from?
I, I maybe self, I mean, at some level, there's a self preservation fear which makes sense, right? I mean, I, I'm not gonna jump off a cliff without a parachute. Be I should be scared of that because it's, it will kill me. And if I fall all free soloing, that will kill me too. So there, there is, there's a healthy fear there and, and just understanding where the balance point is and how much is ok.
And then, and, and, and where, I mean, 11 of the great dilemmas of my life is understanding irrational fear versus rational fear. And where is that dividing line in between them? Because it's possible that maybe the climb or the relationship is too risky and you should get out and try to identify when you've crossed that line can be very difficult in both the physical and the emotional.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
I like how you're kind of like piecing out that sometimes these fears are there to tell us that there's a dangerous situation and then sometimes it's there to tell you, hey, maybe there's something more to learn about you and, and for you to understand better about yourself. But this isn't really something that's going to be threatening or going to kill you right now, whether it be in a physical danger situation or emotional danger situation. I love that.
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
Yeah, I mean, there's no, I, I say in the book, this moving through this relationship, you know, getting to the point of where I, I call Hitting my Stride is the chapter in the, in the book called Hitting My Stride. Moving to that point was the hardest thing I, I I'd ever done up to that point in my life. It, it, it blew away any of the physical challenges. These, some of the emotional challenges that I went through were devastating. It was hard, incredibly hard.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
Yeah. Can, can you talk a little bit more about the hitting your Stride chapter? I was actually gonna go there next.
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
Yeah. So after the, the, the Fight Club chapter was just really the pivot point in, in, in the book where, where I finally started understanding where a lot of my negativity around non monogamy, negative towards myself, jealousy, masculinity hits. where coming from once I got to a point where I was like, oh, you know, like I got the plane flying again.
I was out of the nose. I had the planes flying, I'm climbing and all of a sudden she and I had just started having this life. That was amazing. We were just, we were so in sync. You know, first of all, we, we, we connect on many, many levels. So, you know, the, the sex was, was, was just one piece of it. So, you know, we, we love theater, we love art, we love books, we love adventure sports.
That's how actually we, we ended up getting together. But, you know, she had this real drive towards non monogamy with sex parties and, and group sex and fun adventures with other people around sex and sexuality. And wow, there's the, I think the, the Hitting My Stride chapter chronicles a few years where it's just weekend after weekend of fun, crazy sexual experiences and going to destinations with people.
I, we talk about this great weekend and I talk about this great weekend in New Orleans. This place called the Hacienda. They had through this huge like goth style in this old mansion that they had restored goth sex party that was just wild. And we just said that this, we spent, we went down there for like four days and had this great weekend together in New Orleans.
I just, I couldn't believe how exciting and everything had become once I was able to move past all the initial difficulties. So yeah, the hitting my Stride chapter, it was really important for me to put that in there because I wanted people to see like all the pain was worth it. You know, like I can not only did I come out a fantastically better version of myself, I think I also was having experiences and fun and meeting cool interesting people and doing things that blew my mind and sometimes saying, oh no, I don't want to do that again. That was too much. But it was a, it was a fun experience. I'm glad we tried it. So, yeah, that's the, the hitting my strike was, was, was really fun to write.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
Yeah. It, it sounds, I mean, I even want to go to that gothic sex party and see what all of that looks like because I'm really into, you know, like dark themed things. So that sounds amazing. One thing that stood out to me in what you just said is trying something really is, oh, wait, I actually didn't like it. That's ok. It was an experience that helped me learn more about myself. I think that people lose sight of autonomy of choice in this kind of journey.
And I think what needs to be encouraged is to say like, hey, if you don't like something that doesn't mean you have to like drill yourself into the ground to try to make yourself like it. You know, the whole point of this experience is to enjoy yourself and learn about yourself and do things that add to you and not like bring you down or take away from your life.
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
Yes. Sorry. Was there a question in there?
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
There was no, I'm just commenting. I just thought that was really amazing how you mentioned that, you know, you know, talking about how you have had so many experiences and you did really get into a, a lot of them and, and had a lot of great fun.
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
But within that there were also some things that you, I don't want to do again totally or failed. So seriously. I mean, I, I did in the beginning of the book, I start with all my failures. I'm like, these are all the things I have failed at trying to do and the same thing with, non monogamy. There are things that I failed at, with within it. And then there are also things I tried that I didn't like.
There's one pivotal, you know, one of the rules that I had in place with Jane was that, look, my close friends are off limits because they're not non monogamous. And, and that's, I, I want to keep those relationships. The, the book talks about friendship a lot and how important deep friendship is, is to me and I had this, like, listen, I don't want to risk friendships just so you can get laid with whoever you want to, which stayed in place for a long time. Then I, oddly, I, I did have a friend who looked exactly like me. We were basically twins. It's really funny and at the time he wasn't like inner circle close and she, I was like, I really want threesome of the two of you. And so I was like, all right, let's, let's try that. And I don't want to give away the book. But after that I was like, ok, no, no more close friends. That was a good rule. We tried that. It wasn't a good idea. So, I mean, it was fine in the end. It all worked out. He and I are actually really close friends now, far close than we were then. But, yeah, so, try stuff and if it doesn't work out or if it feels bad.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
Yeah. You, you just don't do it again. Yes. Give, give yourself permission to say no, but give yourself permission to try things. I love. Absolutely. one thing that I was wondering about was when a lot of us think about, like, getting married or getting into a relationship, a lot of us are just, like, ingrained with that monogamy mindset.
And so I, I wondered for you like, what is it about having sex with one woman for the rest of your, your life being like a soul killing sentence, which are some, some of the phrasing you used in your book. So tell me about that.
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
Yes, I know someone else asked me. I was like, that's quite a powerful. Why did you write soul killing sentence? And maybe I was being a little dramatic, but the truth is, I mean, sex is an adventure. Sex is fine. I, I look at sex like, like all the adventures in my life. It can, it can be wild and, and I'm, I want to separate sex and, and deep intimacy with, with, with the, with the person with a woman.
For me, those are separate ideas. Even though they are intimately connected. Sex is an adventure. It can be so and having sex, having casual sex or having friend with benefits, having that light objectified sex that you absolutely cannot get from a long term partner is so enriching to me and fun and gives me so much happiness and joy.
That's probably why I use the dramatic language of soul killing sentence. I fully want, I, I love the idea of being with one woman for the rest of my, my life for, for, you know, emotionally. That makes total sense to me. Whether it happened. I'm not dead yet. So we'll see, we'll see if it, see if it happens or not. But the thought of only having sex with one.
Gosh, that, yeah, it's just like, oh, I mean, I only get one flavor of ice cream for the rest of my life. It's just, yeah. Yeah, I just, I, I miss the energy of the new lover. That's just so fun. Yeah. So that's why I say soul killings and which again, I admit might have been a little dramatic.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
Well, it, it sounds like and, and especially since you just mentioned about like theater and, and arts being like a really important part of your life. You also mentioned there's theater scenes in the book. Yeah. Can you, can you go into that?
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
I, I know the theater scenes in the book, people are very like what's with the theater scenes? So I never written anything before. This is the first time I, I tried to, I mean, I, I wrote an, I helped Jane write an article for Cosmopolitan, but that's, that's literally the extent of my writing. So I've never written anything before and writing is really hard.
It's really hard as writing dialogue is really hard. And even though I mean, I'm recreating dialogue that, that literally happened and, and remembering it is, is, was easy but fitting it into the narrative was incredibly challenging. And one day I was, I was just sitting there writing and, and I was having a tough time kind of working it in.
And I said, well, let me just write this as like a play, right? Let me just do that just for shits and giggles. And I typed it out and I was like, oh, that was a lot easier for me. I could visualize the characters and then I was like, wait a second, I mean, it's kind of like Shakespeare, right? All the worlds indeed the stage and we are merely players.
And I thought, well, when I wanna have, when, when there are these critical dialogue points in the book, let me set them as theater and I had a little fun with it in terms of because the, the book naturally broke into three acts when I broke it up into act one act two, act three. And then within there, when I was doing dialogue, I mean, you know, act one scene 375 right?
I just was kind of having fun of being silly. Like there's, there's scene one, there's act one scene one where we meet, right. And then they start, then they start increasing, you know, act one scene 25 act one scene, 100 and 79 act one scene 720. So I was having kind of fun with it and I, that was me just enjoying and playing with the writing and the first time I did it, my editor was like, I read that I had no idea what you were doing.
And then when I got to the second one, I started to get it. And so he was like, that was really cool. So that, that, that's, that's where the theater scenes, everyone asks about that. Like, why, why are they in there? I like the fact that it's causing people to think.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
Yeah, I like that. You put your own personality in it and you didn't conform to like how you should be writing, like you did whatever the fuck you wanted to do and it sounds like it's paying off and people are enjoying it and people are getting a lot out of it for the way you put out the content.
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I, I had a, a writing a writing co can I give a plug for someone? Yeah, I want a, I, I hired about halfway through the book when I got kind of stuck. I started working with a writing coach and his name is Brad Wetzler. And if anyone is out there thinking about writing a memoir. Please check out BradWetzler.com.
The guy was amazing and, and how he, he helped he helped me become a as good a writer as I could be part of the conversations he had with me when I was trying to decide about because I had submitted the manuscript to a few publishing houses and such and they liked it, but I'm an, I'm anonymous. As you know, the book is written anonymously and publishing houses don't want it.
I was talking with Brad about it and he's like, look, if you want to go to the publishing house, you can't route, you can, you know, you'll have to become an anonymous, but you'll lose the voice that you, like, they're gonna try and change it and you'll lose who you are and I think who you are is really beautiful about this book. He's like, I would never tell someone to do this, but I think you should self public. He's like, you're the only person like he was like, you should do this because your voice is you and I don't think they're gonna get it. It was that, that so, yes, you're, you're right. My, my voice was important and my writing coach even even felt that, I mean, I'm lucky enough. I had reached a point in my life where I could afford a writing coach, but again, I'm gonna hide it. It, it just, yeah, I got so much joy out of the writing process when someone was guiding me.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
I think one of the best investments we can make in ourselves is to have a guide or someone who's an expert in something that we're trying to do, help us learn our own way of doing it and making us feel good about what we're doing. So, sounds like a paid off completely.
Yeah. One thing I want to jump back to is this idea of masculinity. And, and I want to like, ask you how your idea of masculinity has changed from before you started on a non monogamy journey to now where you are.
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
I think that was probably bigger. That was the bigger hill to climb, so to speak than anything else in my journey was I had attached so much. Listen, we, we all, I, I'm not a psychologist but we all tell stories in our heads. I'm sure about who we are. And I had a story in my head about who I was and I was this masculine guy who did these really bold, daring things and, and I was strong and what I was unaware of is how much I had attached my masculinity to who my partner was and her value as, as a woman.
And you know how pretty she was, how smart she was, what I thought of her. No monogamy blew that away. That was the first thing. Second thing. It totally blew away all the validation of me being this tough guy through all my, my sports compared to people I compete against people I participated with. Yeah, I, I have this, I, I think about sort of like the stereotypical masculine guy.
The lumberjack, the guy, you know who's out there chopping trees. He's right. And he, he comes home and, you know, he puts these dun cutting trees for the day and he, this big burly guy with his checkered red shirt and his boots and he throws his chainsaw in his big truck, drives home and sees his wife and she cooks dinner for him. He's sitting there eating and then after dinner, she ties him to a chair and forces him to watch while she gets gang banged and he loves it and they live stream the whole thing.
And the next day when he's out there at the lumberjack, you know, with these other lumberjack, Scotty trees, they all watched the thing on the live stream last like, ok, how is that guy still? Like, where's his masculinity? Is, do they all think of him as a little as a little season? I don't know, sissy, sissy boy or such, even though that's his kink is, he loves being tied up and watching his wife getting gang banged.
That's an extreme example, obviously. But there's a real element of that with me. The, the cuckolding comments that I got when she was blogging about our sex life now I'm cuck is not a kink that she and I engaged in. We had an egalitarian relationship but my God, that was, that was just devastating to me. And so I did a lot of thinking a lot of thinking about it and where I arrived was what is, what is masculinity?
Like what actually is it? I, I, I'm sure it's different from, for everybody but where I arrived is for me it's I, I wanna be the it's about what kind of man I wanna be. You know, I, I wanna be the kind of man that friends, lovers, family members know they can count on, they can count on me physically, they can count on me emotionally and, and being there and being that and being that rock for people, you know, does, does it mean fixing the sink sometimes?
Sure. You know, iii I doing traditional man things, there's, there's elements of that masculinity. I mean masculinity is tough to define, it's gonna be different for everybody. Masculinity was deciding about what kind of man I wanted to be. Do I wanted to be someone that friends, lovers, family members could count on, could they count on me physically?
They can count on me emotionally. It meant it meant being strong, not just showing people you were strong, it meant actually being strong. I had a unique experience with one of the people in my competitive extreme sports world who initially when I became public about no monogamy and Jane and all that I was judged very harshly. And one I was in, I was in the car driving to some, I don't know what we were doing.
We were going base jumping or, or climbing. I don't even remember. But we were in the car with this, I was in the car with this guy and, and he finally admitted to me that he would love to do non monogamy. But there's no way he could ever ever be comfortable with his wife, sleeping with other men. And he looked at me, he said, you're a far stronger man than I am.
That was a real moment for me from a position that had been really judgmental about what I was doing. He came full circle like, wow, you're in, you're a really strong man to be able to, to do that. And I thought, you know what? He's right. II I am like this takes strength, it takes strength to believe in yourself to be like I'm this great person. Yes, you, she's, she has other options, but I'm gonna show her why I'm the best option over and over again because I am so masculinity and having all that harsh judgment initially and all the second party validation that left around my masculinity that allowed a, a mirror into my soul to find out well, who are you? And how do you stop doing things to, to get the, the second part about validation, start doing things that are you being who you want to be? And no monogamy was, was absolutely, could not have been a sharper knife to cut through the tough skin that I had.
It was, yeah, I feel that that's such a beautiful way of just feeling and, and having someone validate that in you too, with you living your life the way you wanted and feeling so just satisfied and content in that.
Yeah. At least again, this was a beautiful journey. I, I went on and that's why I started writing it down back to the title Seek The Risk, right? One of the central questions in my life always has been. What will I be missing out on if I let fear and intimidation prevent me from doing things, right? If I had let the fear and intimidation of the no, the public, the very the public as fuck. No monogamy scare me away. My God. I would have had such a less interesting fun life like it, it, it's, I shudder at that. I, I shudder at, at, I just happened to cross paths with Jane one night and we me and that started this journey, right? All these. It's seeing the opportunity and going, wow, I'm terrified to do that. But look, it, I'm running towards a burning building because I think I don't want to miss out on, on something that could be amazing just because I'm scared.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
And within that it sounds like you're able to live this life of risk and reward. And it sounds like you'll look back one day and say, yeah, “I lived without regrets.”
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
Oh, yeah. I mean, sure, I regret certain things I've said and done, but I, I don't live with, with regret and, you know, it's funny, seek the risk, not the reward. I everyone could say, well, isn't, isn't then getting to the risk, the reward. I'm like, yeah, nuanced. It's, it's more like don't do things for notches on bed posts, do things for the experience of doing them.
So yes. And, and if you do things for the experience of doing your reward will be incredible. Sometimes you'll fail. But when you don't fail My God, those experiences last forever.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
I am so excited to get through your book. I've only, I just finished actually a different memoir. So I'm gonna be reading your memoir now and I'm really excited.
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
Well, I hope, I hope you like it.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, from our conversation, I know I'm gonna love it and definitely recommend it to a lot of clients who have definitely shared some of the struggles that you have. I know you go into it and a lot of your book and you've shared a lot today. But for, for any people who are now starting to be interested in the idea of no monogamy and are wanting to explore that journey for themselves.
Are there any tips or even like one, a one liner that you have for someone who's curious about this journey for themselves that you can just share with listeners right now.
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
One of the things I talk about in the book is, is my, like my climber's mindset, this chill kind of kind of nature where you, you need to, if you're trying to execute, you know, high up on some rock face, whatever. and you need to have this climber chill mindset. And, and when I, when I brought that over to my arm and I, that's how I first was able to, to get into it.
But the point being that not emotionally reacting, not allowing your emotions to cause physical or out outward reactions to things initially because you're gonna get scared and you're, there's gonna be stuff that's gonna trigger you really badly. That's just the nature you're playing with fire. But again, it's gonna be, it's gonna be amazing because of that.
Not in spite of that, when bad emotions come up and they will, you have to be prepared for that. You need to just sort of sink and let it sit and not let it, not let it destroy you or not let it cause you to react in an explosion. You need to just chill the fuck out is what I like to say. That, that if that if I had 11 piece of advice, I would always say, don't react immediately to intense emotional emotions because they are gonna come up and, and visualize, like, visualize one home one day walking in and seeing your partner in bed with another man. Like visualize that what comes up, you know, obviously, whether that's part of your relationship or not, like I did a lot of visualization to try and understand the emotions because your brain can't tell the difference between if you're imagining something or you, this, it brings up the same emotions.
So if I had one piece of advice and in fact, in, in the book, there's a point. I, a very, a very dear friend of mine from the extreme sports world. I introduced him to a very dear friend of mine in the extreme sex world. And because she came out to visit me in Colorado and she was like, oh, do you know any cute guys I can have sex with for the weekend? And I was like, oh, you know, my friend, I think you guys are and I was like, great.
I think they'd have fun and, and they did, they had a great weekend, fucking all weekend. It was, it was awesome. And five years later they're still together. which is really funny. Yeah, they just, they just bought a house together. But, well, it's funny she was taking him to his first sex party. He was literally the exact same. He's this, I mean, he wasn't a sexual ne i of all the other women he'd be with, but now he's with her and almost the same thing and she was taking him to his first sex party and I, I was like, had a little conversation with him. I was like, dude, if anything happens that gets you angry or upset, you just got to sit with it, you just gotta sit with it and then talk about the next day over coffee and breakfast, you do not blow up. If I only had one major piece of device, it's sit with stuff, let it sink in and try to really understand it when strong emotions come to the surface, that's a window into our soul, right?
That's an opportunity to really understand what's going on inside. You don't, don't waste the the the emotional capital that you just spent on getting angry at pointing the finger outward, take a moment and look inward and where is this deep, powerful negative emotion coming from? What's driving it? Because when the hoods open on the car, that's when you can work on the engine.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
Wow, that, I mean beautiful advice. I think you're so right that the window into your soul, like looking at what these emotions bring up great tips. They would be what I would recommend to in my own line of work. So thank you for that and sharing that with listeners. We have to start wrapping up. So can you let listeners know where to find you where to buy your book, et cetera. Where are you hanging out?
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
This is all brand new. I just published a few weeks ago. again, I'm, I'm out of my element once again in a world I do not understand, but I, I have a website. It's seek the risks dot net dot net, seek the risk dot net and how to contact me is there. And you can, there's a link to buy the book currently. It's only on Amazon because that's just where it is.
Eventually I'll get other. I am am I am trying to figure out if there's other ways to sell. But for the moment, that's where it is. Yeah, you can contact me there. You can also send me an email Adam at seek the risk dot net and also for all your listeners, anyone listening, if you would like a free copy of the ebook for the next week after this podcast airs. If any of you email me at Adam and seek the risk and say, hey, I heard you on the Stubborn Love podcast and I'd love a copy of your book.
I will send you a free copy of the ebook. So there you go. And I'd like to make that offer to all your listeners. Again, I'm just, I want to get the art out there. So I'm happy to, to, to send books to people who are your listeners?
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
Oh my gosh, I didn't even know you were going to offer that. So, thank you so much for giving such a gift to people wanting to learn more about themselves and how they can learn from your journey. Yeah. So listeners make sure you jump on that opportunity. Reach out to Adam after you listen to this episode, get your copy of Seek The Risk.
Love that. All right. Well, thank you, Adam so much for this lovely conversation. I'm so glad to have you as a guest and I can't wait to see, you know, just what else you put out in the world, you know, birthing.
Adam, Author of Seek the Risk
This was actually the hardest thing I've ever done previously. It was non monogamy. Now it was writing a book that and yeah, the writing was, it was so difficult. I don't know if I'm ready to dive into it again. But yeah.
Paige Bond, Polyamory Coach
Well, you never know next. We might have a play, right? Or see you on Broadway soon with you all of that. So, who knows? But thank you and listeners, thanks for listening to another episode. We'll catch you next time.
